An Interview with MEP Cristian Terhes

A European/Romanian point of view concerning recent events including the COVIDcrisis

My friend Cristian Terhes, a member of the European Parliament representing Romania, came to the farm on Sunday. Due to the incoming snowstorm, his multi-day visit got cut short, so he could only stay for that one day.

Jill cooked chili, and we chatted well into the afternoon, followed by us taping the following interview.

The conversation was far-ranging, with topics such as the Russian and Ukrainian war, propaganda, North Sea oil, COVID-19 tyranny, Romanian politics, European politics, and more.

---

Malone News is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. We are deeply grateful to the decentralized network of paid subscribers that enables us to continue doing what we do to support freedom.

---

---

The (rough) transcript follows:

Dr. Robert Malone:

I am pleased today to have Mr. Cristian Terhes with us. I met him first a few years ago in the context of the International Covid Summit (since renamed as the International Crisis Summit - ICS). And he was central to inviting the ICS to speak in the European Parliament. It was a crucial moment when a few people within the European Parliament were raising concerns about the management or mismanagement of COVID-19, the public health response, and what was going on in Europe and the European Union. In particular, the unique aspects of what happened in Romania. So Cristian was essential to inviting the ICS to come and speak in Brussels at the European Parliament, and I'm forever grateful for that. But since then, we've known each other for the last few years. We've had meetings in Romania, including the Make Europe Great Again conference. And it's my pleasure and honor to consider him a friend and a number, a key member in the movement of center-right populism that's swept across Europe. And so I'm grateful he's visiting here in the United States. He still has American citizenship in addition to his Romanian citizenship. So he is dual citizen.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yeah, since 2007.

Dr. Robert Malone:

And he kind of grew up here in the US consequent to some events with his own family. He's somebody who's very savvy about Romanian politics, European politics and the structure of the European Union. And he has a different perspective on things like the recent events in Romania having to do with the election that was rescinded, I think by the Romanian Constitutional Court. And it's a little different from what a lot of Americans think of and understand, including people who are associated with the Make America Great Again movement. And Mr. Donald Trump's core team.

So Cristian, can you start by just helping the audience understand more about who you are and where you come from?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. It's a great honor to speak with you and to have me here. It was a great and wonderful honor to have you there be in parliament. And I have to say that, I mean, while you were presenting me, I still remember the years like 2020, 21, 22, when every voice fighting for liberty and for freedom matter. And it was an honor for us to have you in the European Parliament and we achieved great things, at least in Europe.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Yeah, I think so.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

I was born in 1978 in Romania. I'm come from a family that communists persecuted for political and religious reasons. In 1997, I went to the seminary. I became a priest afterwards. In 2002, I immigrated to United States. I lived from 2000 to 2019 in California with my wife and her family. In 2019, I moved back to Europe and was elected to the European Parliament. And since then, I have spent most of my time in Europe, traveling between Romania and Brussels or Strasbourg, depending where we have the European parliamentary sessions.

While I was in the US and after I became a US citizen and one of the few, I would say, registered Republicans in California, I wanted to register as a conservative, but there was no option for it. I was for many years, even before I was elected in the European Parliament, watching and following closely everything that was happening in the political life in Romania and as well as in the US.

So after 2019 being elected in the European Parliament, I promised the Romanians who voted for me that I would defend their rights, their freedoms. I had no idea back then in 2019 that we would be faced with the challenges that we faced during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Then I saw that the basic fundamental rights of people in Europe, at least because I was mainly in Europe at that time, were so severely under threat. And when I looked around and I saw that almost nobody was saying anything, actually mostly nobody of importance in Europe, I felt that it was my duty to speak up for the ones that do not have the platform to speak up.

On top of that, I used to live in a tyrannical dictatorship. I was 11 years old in 1989 when communism collapsed in Romania. And when journalists and colleagues asked me in the European Parliament in 2020, 2021, why I was so outspoken against the abusive measures, when the European Commission promoted me to allegedly fight COVID-19 pandemic, I said- you know what I said?

“I can smell Tyranny from afar because I used to live under one. And I don't want to want that situation to be repeated.”

So when we invited you in the European Parliament, we were a handful of MEPs, six MEPs, the majority of us from Eastern Europe, from former communist countries who knew exactly what Tyranny is. So, if you look back in time, my colleagues and I were the most outspoken members of the European Parliament against the abusive measures during COVID. I was one of those six MEPs who spoke out. So the six members of the European Parliament, the most outspoken against the measures, the majority of us were from former communist countries because we could smell tyranny from far away.

Dr. Robert Malone:

But Cristian, the thing that brought you to have a seat in the European Parliament, what is an essential part of your story? You are another person that basically was a whistleblower. You chose to stand up against some policies that were happening in the post-Ceaușescu period that you found particularly unappealing. And that's what brought you to this strange position of being a conservative nominated by the left-wing party within Romania to represent people, the Romanian people in the European Parliament. Can you say a little bit, about what was it that you stood up and objected to, that brought you into this position?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yes. In 2014, I discovered that the internal intelligence gathering arm, the Romanian intelligence service was secretly and covertly involved in Romanian corruption.

Corruption is a problem that every country has. Romania is not different than any other country. There's no more or less corruption than in any other country. For many years, however, many foreign governments, politicians, embassies, and diplomats have emphasized the corruption in Romania. We acknowledged it and tried to fight it the right way. But from a certain point forward, certain people in this secret intelligence agency were able to secretly, covertly be involved in how prosecutor cases were handled, which was totally against the law.

I mentioned that I'm from a family that was persecuted under communism for political and religious reasons. Communism, the communist secret police had, among many other things, the dual duty to collect intelligence and to prosecute people. Now, after the collapse of communism, because of all the abuses that happened under communism, the decision of the Romanian society right after the fall of communism was to split the two jobs. Now you have an intelligence agency that is dealing with collecting intelligence, and then you have the prosecutors, who are dealing with prosecuting charging people. So that way,

Dr. Robert Malone:

So they basically went back to the old way of doing things.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Exactly, but they did it in a covert way using secret protocols and not the law. So you had the public law published in the journals and official journal of the state, the law stated something, and then they secretly signed certain protocols that allowed these intelligence officers to be involved overtly in prosecuting investigations. So when I found out about this in 2014, someone from the judicial system told me about it. So, for a year I was investigating this corruption.

Dr. Robert Malone:

You did that in part; you were able to do that because you were a priest.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Because I was a priest, and for me, it was a matter of principles. I mean, if I had the chance or the, whatever, the luck, I would say to find out about this information, for me it was a matter of principles because I realized that many people will be unjustly and wrongfully accused and wrongfully convicted if they will not have a due process and a fair trial. So I looked into it, I tried to find evidence that it was true, and it was true.

In 2015, I went back to Romania. I was living in California. So at two, three weeks a year when I had off from work, I went to Romania to visit my family. So, usually half of my time there was spent in Bucharest, just meeting with officials. And I met with the Romanian media, and I asked them, “Are you aware of this issue?”

And they said, yes. So why are you not writing anything? Because it's just a matter of time before the truth is going to come out, it's going to undermine the credibility of the so-called fight against corruption. And they said, well, we cannot say anything because we will jeopardize the fight against corruption. I said, if you are on the wrong side, and you are allegedly fighting for good reasons and for a good cause, you have to fight for everything that is prescribed by law. You should not cut corners and bend the law just to achieve a noble or allegedly noble objective. And they said they will not write anything. And in that case, I said, no, if you are not doing anything, don't worry. I will be doing it from the US.

So I started petitioning many members of Congress. I was the most important voice, I would say outside of Romania, that exposed that secret interference in the judicial process. And in 2018, the truth came to light. Those secret protocols that I was mentioning were finally publicized, declassified, and confirmed. Then obviously a lot of people who were wrongfully accused had the chance to have retrials and many were acquitted. But we (Romania) lost a lot of time, a lot of credibility.

Dr. Robert Malone:

But you established that you're willing to stand on principle and speak up.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

That's what I learned in my family. And nevertheless, that's what I learned in the US because for someone who was born and raised under communism, I live during the transitional period in Romania from communism to capitalism to democracy. And then in 2002, coming to the US and learning the American system, having certain models here, because I met Romanians for example, they were able to escape communism, the so-called exiles. I was able to understand the importance of fighting for freedom for fundamental rights. And I said before, I'm preaching to those people in Romania how to respect fundamental rights. You have to lead by example by fighting for them. So that's what I did from 2015 to almost 2020.

Dr. Robert Malone:

And you didn't have any goal or aspirations of becoming a politician? You weren't doing this for political advantage?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Not at all. Because I was in the US. I had a wonderful life here. I had a church, I worked also in business. I was a programmer working, doing business intelligence for the company. I mean, it did not even cross my mind.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Yeah, you were doing it because it was the right thing to do

Cristian Terhes MEP:

To do. Yes, it was the right thing to do. And I had to, yeah,

Dr. Robert Malone:

I get that.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

So in 2019, it was proposed to me to run by the Social Democrats from Romania. I told them, look a conservative all my life. I'm part of this party that was persecuted by communists. They said, we don't care. We'll sign a protocol. We want to have you on our list, which we did. So after a year, I was elected in the European Parliament, then I went back to the conservative party.

Dr. Robert Malone:

So you didn't seek elected office. It kind of came to you as a consequence of your own actions and your own integrity, your own belief system and your willingness to stand up for the people. Yes.

So then, let me ask a follow-up question. Why should Americans care about Romania? What is it about Romania that matters geopolitically or in any other way? What's unique about Romania? Is it a member of the European Union?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Romania is a member of the European Union, is a member of NATO, and on top of that, there's a strategic partnership for this century between Romania and the US.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Many Americans don't even know where Romania is. They know Count Dracula and Transylvania, but they don't really know modern Romania.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Well, I can tell you, if they will visit Romania, they will come back.

Dr. Robert Malone:

But more than that, it's the Black Sea,

Cristian Terhes MEP:

The Black Sea, the Danube River, the Carpathian Mountains.

Dr. Robert Malone:

That also relates to the mouth of the Danube. The Delta.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yes, the Delta. Exactly the biggest Delta in Europe. And on top of that is the, I mean, if you look from an economic point of view, any goods, for example, that are shipped from India or China into Europe, it's way closer to ship them and to use the Romanian ports and from the Romanian ports for all those shipments to be taken to central Europe or even to western Europe, you will cut the shipping time by 10 to 14 days.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Just trying to set it in terms of the world stage. You have some very interesting neighbors on your borders that are in the news lately.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Ukraine, Serbia, Moldova, and a little bit further away, and hopefully for a very long time, Russia.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Yeah.

Geopolitically, you're in a key part of the world. You're one of the major ports for transshipments from all over the world back into Europe, particularly Eastern Europe. And there are certain geopolitically important strategic assets including petrochemical, petroleum-based assets. Can you talk about that a little?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yeah, it was actually the Americans who found a lot of gas in the Black Sea, some of the gas in the Ukrainian territory, others are in Romanian territory, Bulgaria and the Turkish territory.

Dr. Robert Malone:

They have a lot of natural gas. Now, natural gas is a key issue with the major European economic powers of France and Germany. Matter of fact, they kind of cut off their nose despite their face with the loss of the pipelines coming from Russia.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

To Ukraine.

Dr. Robert Malone:

And now they have a problem supplying their own energy resources with windmills and green energy. And it's killing Western European industrial strength, particularly Germany, isn't it?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yes. Well, what happened in the past decades, and I can't speak even as a member of the European Parliament, the Russians were heavily involved in Western Europe for Germany to support the environmentalist movements, the Green movements. For example, in Germany, to stop all the nuclear power plants, which Germany did. So right now, Germany is relying on electricity, for example, from France, which nuclear power plants mainly produce. But Germany was relying for a very long time on cheap gas from Russia, obviously in exchange for certain things, as they call it, a geopolitical price for that cheap gas coming from Russia. Now, because of the war in Ukraine,

Dr. Robert Malone:

What we're talking about is NordStream,

Cristian Terhes MEP:

NordStream I, NordStream II. I mean, imagine that when Trump, for example, was elected in 2016, one of the first measures that he took was to sanction the companies that were building NordStream II. So, for four years, that project stopped until Biden took office. Then he lifted the sanctions, they finished NordStream II, and then had enough money to start the war and conduct this war of aggression against Ukraine. Now that the NordStream II is stopped pretty much at the end of 2024, the contract between Gasprom and Ukraine to use Ukraine as a passing gateway for all the gas from Russia to Western Europe, got to an end and they did not renew the contract. Now, Western Europe has a problem with this gas; some of the gas, some the supplies needed or Western European economies are coming from US with LNG gas. But that is not enough to provide for what is needed there.

Dr. Robert Malone:

I didn't know about the Black Sea natural gas reserves until you taught me about this.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Exactly.

Dr. Robert Malone:

And in particular, that kind changes how you view the Ukrainian conflict. I naively thought that Ukrainian conflict on the part of the Russians was about territory and particularly about access to ports that remain open all seasons in the Black Sea.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Correct. The Sevastopol port. And of course, the Romanian Port of Constanta is the largest port in the Black sea.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Precisely. And you taught me that. Well, there's so much more to this because if Russia is able to control that Ukranian coastline, then it can potentially control access to those natural gas reserves and use that control to shut off the ability of Europe to get access to that and to overcome the problems of prior reliance on Russian national gas. Did I understand that correctly?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

That's correct. Imagine that gas was used, and the Russians were selling cheap gas to certain Western European countries. It was used as leverage by Russia right? Now, on top of that, over the years, they made these European, Western European economies dependent on Russian gas, right? Through many measures, active measures and propaganda.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Well, you spoke about the intentionally divisive strategy to augment the Green movement to support the shutdown of nuclear power in Germany. That makes the German industry even more dependent on Russian gas.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Exactly. But the Netherlands economy was in exactly the same in the same situation. The Austrian economy. They (Austria) even passed a referendum that they will not ever build out a nuclear power plant in Austria. So, all these things that happened in the past decade actually make it so the Western European economy is dependent on Russian gas. So imagine now when you discover in the Black Sea, a lot of gas that can provide for the needs of all these Western economies is not in the interest of Russia for all those reserves to be exploited. So the European countries could rely, in this case, on gas from the Romanian shore and Ukrainian shore, and

Dr. Robert Malone:

It would be easy to move that natural gas through pipelines, let alone LNG shipped up essentially the Danube Plateau and then the valleys of the Danube up into industrial Europe. Is that right?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yes, but we already have the pipes because there's specific gas right now, for example, coming from others, so the pipes are there already. It's just a matter of filling 'em, filling them with gas. So imagine that right now, for example, in Europe, there are American companies bringing LNG gas from us,

Dr. Robert Malone:

Which by the way, elevates all the way to Greece, and increases US natural gas prices because they can now get a premium by shipping across the ….

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Atlantic. Exactly. So it's hurting everybody. You need three things to have a functional and a fast developing economy, cheap energy, cheap oil, and cheap gas. So what is happening right now in Europe, for example, besides the war, the Russian War of Aggression against Ukraine, the past policies implemented by the European Commission since 2020 with a so-called Green deal is pretty much undermining the European economy because it's very hard right now to build manufacturers in Europe because of all these environmental issues and stuff, which is giving an upper hand to China, for example.

Dr. Robert Malone:

So your point is, if I understand you correctly, that the Green New Deal that's discussed at the World Economic Forum and throughout the European Parliament and European Union, if you step back and ask the question of who wins with that geopolitically, it's very much in the interests of both…

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Russia and China.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Russia and China.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Exactly. And it's happening already. I mean,

Dr. Robert Malone:

So, the logical derivative of that is you would expect Russia and China to interfere in European politics to advance the interests of the Green New Deal because it would advance Russia and Chinese geopolitical strategic interests. And you're suggesting that that has been done through a variety of active measures?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yes, active measures and reflexive control measures as they used to be called.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Which brings up another point. You have a kind of a unique background educationally, back when you were in California, I think at Fullerton,

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yes.

Dr. Robert Malone:

You studied these things. You studied Russian propaganda, disinformation campaigns, et cetera.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

I have a master's degree at Cal State Fullerton, and in order to apply for the program, I had to have certain prerequisite classes, as they are called. Since I finished theology in Romania, I had no courses in communication or journalism. So in order for me to apply to this program at Cal State Fullerton, I had to go for two years and study undergrad classes in communication and journalism. That's when I learned how to be a journalist, write articles, and especially in communication. That's when I learned more and more about Russian propaganda, how, especially during the Cold War, the KGB were able to influence the Western world and the Western public opinion, and seeing now what is happening not only in Western Europe but especially in Eastern Europe, I see exactly the same kind of measures that were used during the Cold War to influence and shift the public opinion.

Dr. Robert Malone:

And again, this is something you were particularly sensitized to because your family had been….

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Persecuted

Dr. Robert Malone:

Under the communist regime of Ceaușescu.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yes.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Which was really quite heavy-handed, totalitarian, and self-serving. If you look at Ceaușescu's Palace as an example, it is the classical communist totalitarianism. So when you see these things, you have a particular sensitivity to them.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Exactly. And imagine for example, because you were mentioning the dictatorship of Ceaușescu, he pretty much surrounded Romania with barbed wire. If one tried to leave Romania - in order to live in a free society- you risked your life. Many of the Romanians you will find in the US escaped Romania under communism. They're the lucky ones because many others died trying. For example, they had to swim over the Danube River or try to cross the border into Hungary, risking their lives to try to be free.

So if you come from a society like this, and especially from a family that knew how to fight, for example, this kind of propaganda, you look at what is happening now from a different perspective because you always have this bad experience of the past, and you can easily connect the dots. I would say this is what is happening. This is the reason why, as I said, during the COVID Pandemic, all these measures that were implemented at the European level, I was the first one who said: “Well, these are not okay.” I mean, I see too much, so much.

Dr. Robert Malone:

So you were key, a key thought leader and opinion leader at that moment in history, that crucial moment in history where we got to learn who is willing to stand up for what is right and speak out, and who is just going to be quiet and go along to get along. You were one of the ones together with Christine Anderson, Rob Roos and a few others.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yes.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Right, who were quite outspoken in this very major forum of the European Parliament in representing the Romanian people. But there's something deeper. Can we talk just a little bit about COVID and what happened in Romania through your leadership and that of many others as the leadership from the European Union, particularly Ursula von der Leyen. As many folks that don't know European politics. She is, what is it? Is it the president?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

President of the European Commission?

Dr. Robert Malone:

Okay. The President of the European Commission

She is in a kind of an appointed position. But the European Commission is able to, overrule the European Parliament and also able to overrule things that come out of national parliamentary actions such as the Bundestag (the German federal parliament) in Germany. The European council can overrule things that come out of the Bundestag. So something happened in Romania. Romania was, as I recall, was told to comply with the vaccine mandates in particular. And then what happened?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Then we took it to the streets. We were able to educate people in Romania to oppose that. I mean, not that we were opposing all vaccinations.

Dr. Robert Malone:

When you say we, you were a key leader in that?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yes, I was a key leader at the European level, but slowly, the movement grew, and as far as Romania is concerned, there were more and more people joining this movement. And it was not something that was organized, it was just organic. It was organic in that people: online people, offline, people everywhere. They could feel it. That was not right because again, we had something to compare it with. If you were born and lived your entire life in a democracy, you don't understand what Tyranny is because you never experienced it.

But in our case, since we lived in a tyrannical system before, we could always immediately smell it, feel it. That it was not right. So that is the reason why if you look in Eastern Europe, for example, like Romania and Bulgaria are the European Union countries with the lowest vaccination rate, but not because people are opposing vaccination. They did not trust what was happening.

Dr. Robert Malone:

When you say vaccination rate, you're talking about the SARS-CoV-2 COVID-19 vaccines.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Exactly. Not other kind of vaccines, because here's also something very important to point out. We were not against vaccines, any kind of vaccines. In my case, for example, my arguments were legal arguments, logical arguments, philosophical arguments, and it is very simple. The government cannot impose any medical treatment on you. The government can explain that you can do certain things, educate you, persuade you, but not obligate you or blackmail you to be injected with something or to swallow something.

Europe went through a situation like this during the Second World War with everything that happened in Auschwitz and all those concentration camps, that's actually what happened. One government, one tyrannical, abusive government, pretty much made all these experiences and trials, medical trials on human beings. So after that, in Europe, we developed certain fundamental rights that said, ‘Hey, we don't want that to happen anymore.” Well, unfortunately, we forgot that ugly history. And in 2020 or 2021, if I'm not mistaken, with the digital green certificate, people in Europe were not allowed to travel. It was very hard for them to travel.

Dr. Robert Malone:

So this is the digital ID that was linked to vaccine acceptance.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Exactly. That was the beginning of it.

And I was the first one to kind of trademark the following statement in the European parliament with the digital green certificate: we are witnessing the tyrannification of Europe because a similar system was used and they are still used in China with the social credit system.

So they created now the infrastructure that first of all, the legal infrastructure that was very important, the technical infrastructure, now they have it. It was used for a year and a half. I was the only member of the European Parliament who refused to get a digital green certificate and who entered the European Parliament without providing or showing a digital green certificate. For that reason, I was fined the highest fine that was ever given to a member of the parliament because I was constantly arguing with the security guards when I tried to enter the Parliament. Some of those encounters are public on YouTube and on Facebook. And I tried to be, I would say, a role model for all the other Romanians mainly, and for any other person to defend and fight for their fundamental rights. And we were successful.

Dr. Robert Malone:

What happened? What happened in Romania when the government told the Romanian people, you get a green card vaccine passport or you don't work, isn't that what happened?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

That's what they said. And they had to pass a law for that. But when we took it to the streets, and tens of thousands of people protested in the streets surrounding the governmental buildings.

Dr. Robert Malone:

The government makes a statement; then suddenly there is massive spontaneous protests from the bottom up.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Exactly.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Okay. And then,

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Then they just postponed it because in the Romanian parliament, for example, they have the Bureau of the Parliament with the heads of all these parties that are part of the Parliament, and they agreed on the agenda, what are they going to vote on next week and whatever. So every time when we found out that they would be even talking about voting on this digital COVID certificate at the national level, we took it to the streets. We emailed them, we called them, we bombarded them, we threatened them. We did everything that we could to stop them. We were successful.

Dr. Robert Malone:

So you forced the European Parliament to kind of kick the can down the road using an American metaphor.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yes.

Dr. Robert Malone:

You did this so many times that basically by the time that you had done this, the issue was postponed and the momentum had been lost and it was never implemented. Is that what happened?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Well, it was implemented at the European level for certain measures, but it was not mandated. It was more like conditioning - the exercise of certain rights. But they were not mandating that you be vaccinated. But then, this law was tried to be implemented at the national level. So imagine in the US you have a federal law, and then at the state level, the assembly or the Senate at the state level in the US is trying to implement it at the same time. That's where we stopped it. But it was very important that at the EU level, we were a handful of voices who opposed this, and I was the first one and the strongest one to have press conference and all of that.

Dr. Robert Malone:

So now as we look back from the standpoint of, it's now January, 2025, right? Yes. So we're five years into this mess. I'm choosing my words, and we look back on this, and there's been a few nation states in the European structure, Sweden being one, that for a number of reasons didn't have, again, I'm going to choose my words, didn't have very strong vaccine uptake. And one of those notoriously notable is Romania. So Romania did not basically get the jab in the same way that say Austria did, or Germany did, or France did, or even the UK did kind of on the borderlines between European or non-European. So Romania basically said, we've seen this before. I'm paraphrasing. We've been down this before with Ceaușescu. We don't like it very much, and we're not going to tolerate it, and we're not going to take the jab, forcing the parliament in Romania to kind of postpone, postpone, postpone, taking action.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

It was not necessary.

Dr. Robert Malone:

And so then the people were able to maintain employment. They weren't shut down in the same way as most of Europe. They didn't have to comply with the vaccine. We call 'em mandates here in the United States. What happened? Were there people dying on the streets in Romania of COVID? What happened?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Well, the funny part is this, at the beginning of 2022, we have an agency in Europe, EMA, the European Medical Agency or Medicine Agency, the equivalent of CDC and FDA from a US point of view.

Dr. Robert Malone:

European Medicines Agency.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Exactly. So they are releasing the mortality rates. And the surprising part was that in European Union and the countries with the highest vaccination rate in 2021, the beginning of 2022, as of 2022 had the highest mortality rate or excess mortality rate. Yeah, all-cause mortality. Exactly. The only reliable indicator during, well, I mean it's the only what changed, right? Because they were comparing the monthly average with the five years monthly averages prior to COVID. So what changed from 2019 to 2022 in all these countries, it was only the COVID.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Of course, everybody got COVID, right? And it killed huge numbers of people. So these were people, but maybe not…..

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Well, these were people who died in 2022 and 2023 after the wave, but

Dr. Robert Malone:

Not 2020. 2021 was in theory, the more lethal version of SARS CoV2 is circulating.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

So going back to what you said, the reaction that we had in Romania, the reason why people in Western Europe, for example, especially in German countries, so like Austria, Austria, Germany, Netherlands for example, were so obedient to what the governments said is because they trusted the government. Because again, they at least this generation of citizens from those countries, they could not believe that the governments would want to harm them.

In our case, in Romania for example, or Bulgaria, I mean in 1989 is just 35, 36 years ago. For us, when the government is giving you something for free or even forcing you to take it, well, there's got to be something wrong with it. I mean, we were even joking in Romania at some point that we said, Hey, maybe the best strategy would've been not to have enough vaccines for all. So they would have to bribe doctors to get a vaccine, but it was a

Dr. Robert Malone:

Learning. So Ursula von der Leyen tried to fine Poland for, because Poland kind of did a halfway between Germany and Romania because they had a change in leadership midway through this. And at the start of the COVID crisis, as I recall, what was the story? They weren't taking vaccine and then they were under the later administration. Was that the….

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Way? Well, they were taking vaccines, but they were not forcing the amount of people. The problem is this European Council and Ursula von der Leyen signed generic contracts with these companies to buy or to purchase. In total, Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Johnson and Johnson, and I think two others, she signed to buy 10 doses of vaccines for every EU citizen, 10 doses. So we are about four. It's a great deal if you….

Dr. Robert Malone:

Can get it, if you're one…

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Of those. We are about 440 million people in the European Union. So she signed to purchase 4.4 billion doses of vaccines. Now, here's the problem. At the beginning of this crisis, she said that these vaccines are, and I call and I quote, safe and effective. What if they are, let's leave the safety net outside for now. If they're effective, why would you buy 10 doses of them? Fair enough, ahead of…

Dr. Robert Malone:

Time. Well, maybe because you had some familial links back to the…

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Company. We found that out. We found out about that down the road, but we did not know that at the beginning. It made no sense, but it was just, again, for me,

Dr. Robert Malone:

It was just logical. And then didn't she basically say, well, all of you European countries, now you're going to buy these doses from us.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

She signed the contracts. That's the…

Dr. Robert Malone:

Problem. Okay,

Cristian Terhes MEP:

So Poland said what you are mentioning, and because Romania was also, it's exactly in the same situation. So the way she signed the contract, she bound these countries to purchase these doses of vaccines, even if they don't need them anymore, which is absurd. Which person in the right mind would sign a contract with someone? It…

Dr. Robert Malone:

Certainly suggests that there was some conflict of interest, but who knows? Maybe she was just caught up…

Cristian Terhes MEP:

With fear. What we found out actually was someone from New York Times that was kind of staying on this topic for many years now. They were private messages, SMSs between Oline, the president of the European Commission, the one who signed these contracts, and Albert Borla, the CEO of Pfizer. So these two people, one, it's a governmental official. The other one is the CEO of one of these pharma companies. They exchange private messages and then they signed these contracts. So obviously this journalist from New York Times said, we want to see these text messages because they are official messages pretty much, right? Well, they said, well, we don't have them anymore. We cannot give them to you and all that stuff. So for the past four and almost four years now, we are fighting to find out what was with those messages. We want to see those messages. Now, the second fight that we are still fighting in the parliament and in the European parliament, and I'm leading that fight, is to have the full version of the contracts that were signed by Sula the line. Oh, you can't even see the contract. Not entirely,

Dr. Robert Malone:

But she is trying to force the terms of the contract on Poland, which has basically said, hell no, go pound sand, metaphorically speaking. And she must also be doing the same thing with Romania

Cristian Terhes MEP:

And with any other country. Because here's the problem. This is one issue with all these clauses that are forcing the governments, the states to buy doses of vaccines that they don't need. The problem is with the liability clause. In other words. So you have the government, because this is the problem. Now, they socialize the risks and they capitalize the profits. So they force people. So you have a government in office that is forcing people now to be vaccinated with these injections. But the same government signs a secret contract with this producer of injections, and the producer of these injections are saying, Hey, we don't want to be liable for this product. And the government says, oh, no problem. We will waive any liability. But then at the end of the day, if this person who really either believed the government or was forced by the government to be injected with his medical products, who is compensating this person in case he has an adverse effect after that injection? What's the answer? Well, nobody knows. Well, it's not happening. But here's another problem because it's not like in the US law, for example, because I saw now in many more….

Dr. Robert Malone:

There is a special vaccine court, but almost nobody is getting…

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Compensation. But now you see people being compensated if they were kicked out of work in 2000, 2020. Okay,

Dr. Robert Malone:

That's not the government doing that. The lawyers are…

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Suing, but it's costing. It's very costly. It's very expensive. And you might be lucky or not to win the case after spending a…

Dr. Robert Malone:

Lot of money.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Exactly. Then if you have a mortgage, what are you going to do in the meantime?

Dr. Robert Malone:

Well, that's the States, but in Europe you?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Don't even have that option. Well, this is the problem because based on the civil law in Europe and in Romania, you have to prove that these vaccines, not only they were not safe in general, they affected you personally. So they changed the burden of proof. So the government should be the one.

Dr. Robert Malone:

By the way, this is exactly what was done with tobacco in the United States. And the only way that we finally were able to prevail against the tobacco industry is through a class action lawsuit that demonstrated that in aggregate, there was this adverse event or series of adverse events like cancer and death, much akin to the issue of the excess all cause mortality. But in Europe, you've basically been prevented from making the excess all cause mortality, aggregate risk argument based on the current interpretation of the law. Did I get that correct?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yeah, that's correct. So this is, I mean, going back to the beginning of our discussion, why it was so important for you and for all of your colleagues to even be in the European Parliament when we had that event, because we realized as lawmakers that we had limited power here. If I would've said what you just said, first of all, I am not a specialist in your field, and who would've believed a member of the parliament if that person talks about side effects of medical products? And so many doctors are saying how good they are. So in my case and many of my colleagues, we simply rely on what the law states that the government can force you to be injected with something or swallow something automatically speaking. But there was still the issue of the side effects and the adverse effects

Dr. Robert Malone:

And the lack of efficacy. I mean, that's now why we acknowledge that these things do not stop infection or spread of the virus.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

And this is the reason why I think the battle is not over. I mean, okay, we stopped this at the country level. I would say people are not forced to be vaccinated anymore with the COVID-19 vaccines in order to go to work. But the issue is still there because the precedent was created after we were done with this measures in Europe. The European Commission signed an agreement with WHO to give the platform for the digital covid certificate, the green certificate, to WHO to use it globally. So what was tested on the Europeans, now it's in the hands of WHO to be implemented worldwide and looking at what is happening, I think is just a matter of time before another so-called pandemic might start and be used as an excuse. Are people in Europe in this measures globally?

Dr. Robert Malone:

Are people in Brussels or in Europe talking about bird flu?

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Yeah, they were talking, but not too much into it. But yeah, there were some talks even in Romania.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Yeah. So that's a big issue right now in the United States. So keep your eyes on that one. The government is, or somebody is actively pushing it. The strange thing about the United States is that we've had some, we can call them key industry or opinion leaders: the former director of the CDC, of instance, and others are coming out talking about the huge risks associated with bird flu and yet the US CDC and now the US NIAID, that's Tony Fauci’s old agency, which is a branch of the HHS, are explicitly saying that the risk of bird flu is low to humans. I'm sorry, it's propaganda about bird flu that is circulating right now and it's hitting mainstream press. So somebody is pushing this, but it appears it's not the US government, and who that somebody is, is not clear. Is it the pharmaceutical industry?

Who is it behind this? But I think we need to watch and see as the European Union and Robert Koch Institute in Germany and others that for instance, EMA relies on for scientific expertise, are they going to start talking about bird flu also, or are they going to follow the footsteps of CD, C and NIAID and say, this is a low risk situation and we need to continue to develop medical countermeasures, but this is not the time to deploy them and we don't have a public health emergency right now. And are we going to see Mr. Tedros, the braces at World Health Organization, make statements about what a great threat this is to world health and potentially make any decisions about whether or not this represents a pathogen of true pandemic potential that represents a threat to world health? It would justify activating the international health regulations and the clauses that would allow WHO to implement, for instance, these green passports. I think that's something that it would be behoove the European Parliament to carefully monitor.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

I remember what Ronald Reagan used to say during the Cold War that freedom is just one generation away from extinction. So it's up to every generation to fight for its own freedom and for the freedom of the generation that are coming after that generation. So we are exactly in the same situation. What happened during the COVID crisis was just one example that when governments are using fear to manipulate people and to blackmail people, a lot of people are caving in. But as the time passes, people are waking up and they are realizing that they were tricked. But that doesn't mean that the government or people in power companies, whatever will stop. They will find another excuse. So you have to be vigilant. And when it comes to freedom, my thesis was let's say in the European Parliament that I'm never ever be compromising on principles and on freedom because once you make any compromise on this, then the hell is going to break loose.

Usually when you pass legislation, as Ronald Reagan used to say, you don't want to know how laws and the sausages are made, everybody wants to put something in it. But I mean, I saw how these things are done in the European parliament, and I understand them up to a point when it comes to fundamental rights and individual freedom. When you make any compromises to this, the first one affected is you. This is what I told my colleagues. They all said, Hey, why are you so much against this? Because you have a diplomatic passport. And I was allowed obviously to easily travel easier than any other regular citizen. And I said, exactly for this reason, because first and foremost, I'm fir for my own right. I will not be in this parliament forever. I don't want to live in a society where in order to move from point A to point B, I have to show a green certificate or a QR code to someone.

And it's absurd. It's not a free society anymore. But look what they've done. They changed the narrative and the whole mindset of people, we live in a free society, or at least in the Western world, based on the Judeo-Cristian values, we are all free, all created equal. But the government can in certain instances, justify instances to, let's say, limit your rights for a very limited period of time, legally speaking. Well, what they've done during the pandemic, they changed that relationship that we were all locked in houses. And in order to travel free, you need to have a passport. So in other words, we were not the people anymore. We were people subjected to the measures of the government. And it was up to the wish and will and likeliness of people in government to allow you to travel from one point to another. And that's exactly how ese were implemented everywhere around the world. And this is one of the main reasons why I was so severely outspoken against this. I'm reminded of

Dr. Robert Malone:

Orwell’s book, the infamous book Animal Farm,”All animals are created equal. But some animals are more equal than others.’

I just want to say, Cristian, thank you for coming on. We've been speaking for a while now.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

My pleasure.

Dr. Robert Malone:

And in particular, I want to thank you for your leadership and your courage and that comes from the heart.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

Thank you.

Dr. Robert Malone:

And I look forward to the next stage in your life as you continue to develop as the non politician, political leader of Romania, and really a beacon of light for all of you.

Cristian Terhes MEP:

I like to say that I'm a fighter. I'm not a politician. A politician will always try to sell you something. I don't want to sell anything to anybody. I just want people to be free and live their lives the way they want. I really believe in freedom. I believe in national sovereignty, and these are the values that I'm fighting. So thank you so much for having me and looking forward to have you back in the European Parliament as soon as possible.

Dr. Robert Malone:

Okay, thanks Cristian. Thank you.