Thats all fine and good if they are willing to make a go at it on their own, leave the system and set up an alternative society, but this is whining and quitting.
Yes, society failed them, but do something about it. Playing video games in your basement and ignoring life because "it sucks" was never an option in human history.
Thats all fine and good if they are willing to make a go at it on their own, leave the system and set up an alternative society, but this is whining and quitting.
Yes, society failed them, but do something about it. Playing video games in your basement and ignoring life because "it sucks" was never an option in human history.
How did "society" fail them? I was born in England right after WW11. We had little to eat and played in bombed out bldg"s. Surely former generations were failed by society. Two class system and not allowed to move up, etc. Difference is we didn't have media telling us we had been "failed" ! Read Main Street.....by Sinclair. Obviously these kids had life too easy. Even in the 1950s kids delivered newspapers. Mowed lawns etc. Whatever went wrong happened after we became a two car, TV in every room and of course computer and games society.
I appreciate your question and I understand the validity of your perspective. My mother was born several years before you, recently deceased, and I get it.
The difference is this, modern children are not, in majority, in the US, given the options or the culture to succeed as you did.
The problem isn't that times are hard, they are in many ways too easy. What you went through breeds fortitude. What these kids are going through breeds entitlement.
Parents fault. Baby Boomers wanted children to have a better life. We over did it. Letting a kid play video games for hours or days is not anything a responsible parent would have done. I have spent time with parents who allowed 1 hour down time after school. Then homework and chores. Kids ate turning out as individuals who will make their own way. These kids are of all ethnicities. They have educated parents. Bernie Sanders suggested parenting classes. I agree with that.
"Whatever went wrong..." -- I appreciate your view and experience, similar to my own, but need to point out that in many places in the US, delivering newspapers (which are essentially defunct) and mowing lawns, as well as other jobs that involve kids working outside the house can be dangerous. One of the "whatever went wrong" things is kidnapping, pedophilia and trafficking of children. A society that tolerates this is "what happened", and what is tolerated today would never have been when you and I were growing up.
Those abuses have always existed.Are you aware that until 1965 Christians were taking Native children awsy from parents to breed the indian out of them. 3 out of every 10 died. . They were subjected to every kind of abuse. I was molested at age 6 by a stranger with a knife against my throat. We didn't have the media coverage. Clergy molesting children started centuries ago. We are careful today and for children born into decent families the abuse is less. The
Newborn babies sent home with drug addicted 14 year old mothers and those coming across our border unaccompanied are at great risk. Mowing lawns has been turned over to paid adults. In rural areas the kids still work in the fast food restaurants. Only in the cities have people taken them as a job for life. We can all pay our own children to perform chores. They can mow the lawn and trim the bushes. But we don't.
Post WW2 Britain was a tough time. I was born in the UK in 1956. The stories my dad told me (British Navy WW2) were interesting and his experiences shaped his tough mindset. Going through war can do that to people. I hate war but like the COVID experience it can bring out the best and worst in people.
My dad decided that as a working class dude in England, he'd be better off in the "colonies". It was Canada instead of New Zealand because flying back to see family was easier. It wasn't because Canada was so great. But at least here it was more about what you did than who your parents were.
My Dad Royal Navy Submarine Division WW2. Yes, England a 2 class system people were expected to stay in the low class if born there. We immigrated to USA because my Mom loved American films. It was a mistake because we left behind a very large and loving family. Plus i was almost 13. Lost my very close friend's.
We started off a lot poorer in Canada than if we'd stayed in England. I liked my country but it's become a woke hell with a trust fund Prime Minister who has no connection with the real people of Canada. This is what happens when you elect elitists who have less than average intelligence and no knowledge of the real world and what it takes to survive when you don't have a rich family to bail you out.
Very beautiful area. I would have missed it. My cousin immigrated to Canada then applied to come into the USA. Was given legal immigrant status. Late 1960s. 2 weeks after he arrived he was drafted and sent to Vietnam.
My dad was offered a good job in the US. He didn't take it. It was during the Viet Nam war. He told them, "I have a son". We stayed in Canada.
Two rules with the old man. Don't go into the military and you're not to own a motorcycle. He knew what I was like and he wanted to keep me alive. God bless you dad. You're in heaven now. I say that about everybody I loved. Who knows if it's true? Who cares? That's what you say.....it's sappy but it's all you can say when you love somebody and they pass.
You are talking about a time when people had a more aggressive, even defiant, attitude towards life. The problem now is that these people are demoralized. They see no solution, no way out except the "reset" button of death. They need guidance from us that will match their reality enough for them to pay attention to it.
I was born in a time when it was work or starve. No choice. When my grandfather went down a coalmine at age 8, his mother was glad to get his paypacket. We didn't consider choice. Knew we had none if we wanted to survive. My grandmother took in laundry and cleaned houses to feed her nine children. They ate pigeons. For Christmas we recieved nuts and oranges. Fruit a luxury after WW2 in England. Rationed..everything was for 10 years. No choices.
My grandad trapped rabbits to feed the family. My first wife had a brother who owned a pet rabbit. He paid about $300 for medication for this rabbit when it got sick. This was in the 80s. I laughed my ass off at the stupidity of spending $300 on a rabbit. That's just me thinking about my grandad feeding the family with trapped rabbits while this kid spends $300 to cure a fricking rabbit. I know. Perspective is everything.
It's like my dog. I love him but he's 14. I'm not going to spend thousands on a dog to keep him alive for another few months. I wouldn't do it for myself and fortunately I can make intelligent decisions for my old friend. I won't let him suffer so that I can have more time with him. That's just self-indulgent bullshit and I don't get it. Sure, I have enough money that I could spend 10 grand keeping my old dog alive but when you think about it in any rational way, that is insanity. It's selfish and it's cruel and people think that they are being kind. They are just being sentimental. Your dog doesn't even really know that he's a dog. You just project all of these human thoughts on to your dog. Of course we don't know what a dog really thinks but consider this. One minute he's biting you and a few seconds later he's licking you. He has no concept of the future....maybe some memory of the past. Don't make your dog suffer so that you aren't lonely and grieving. He'll be in dog heaven. God bless him.
Sometimes I think my dog will go to hell....he attacked a deer....just a baby...but he was bred to kill. He's a cross between a Yorkshire Terrier and a Jack Russell Terrier. That's a lot of terrier in an 18 pound package. Genetically modified dog. I love him but by human standards he's a nasty little bastard. I'll miss him terribly when he passes. We have a bet amongst my friends about who will die first, my dog or I. I didn't even want a damned dog. My wife and kids wanted a dog. Now he's my dog and he's my best friend.
I had a 5lb Yorke. Most vicious dog I have ever owned. She attacked a Husky while with my daughter. Husky won. In hospital a week. Stood in the window, they go to the floor, tubes sticking out from her, Husky walks by she barks and growls. Just wait until I get out of here. Of course raised in Scotland to attack the rats that went under the looms. My husband would say if that dog was any bigger she would be dangerous. I named her Tipperary. My Granda used to sing the song "Its a long way to Tipperary" Good memory.
There's something so admirable about the little sods. They're so cocky and fearless. Bentley is my first dog. I grew up in a 'cat' family.
When we first received Bentley (from a co-worker who had to leave him at home alone all day. making him unhappy) we didn't get along. He would bite me and I regret to say that I hit him.
I'm sorry Bentley. I didn't hit him hard. It didn't matter anyhow. He still bit me. I didn't know dogs. He sleeps with me now. When I get up, he gets up. If I go outside, he goes outside. He follows me everywhere. I take him everywhere with me. He doesn't bite me very often anymore except when he wants to steal the cat's food and I try to get him away from the bowl. Then he bites me. I don't hit him. I just call him a vicious bastard. He just doesn't get it. He's the boss and why don't I understand? I guess I do now. Respect.
Our friends have a Bernese Mountain/Poodle. Huge dog. Bentley attacked him. Bentley is not invited back. Now I understand the saying "a man's best friend is his dog".
I often wonder if Yorkies have zero idea about how small they are. They are David attacking Goliath. They must have heard the story. Tippy lived to be 17. Thank you your story was the most upbeat I have read all week.
LOL. I don't think dogs have a good idea about their size. My little dog will attack a large dog but he does seem to have an understanding about how dangerously aggressive the other dog is. He'll avoid a dog that is overtly aggressive.
So he's not completely oblivious to danger, apparently.
What's curious is that those people rose to the occasion when they were in a situation that was very physically challenging. But when modern people are emotionally challenged by what basically amounts to propaganda, they cave in. Except for some places, the physical stress is really not that bad. It seems that the mismatch between the emotional and the physical drives people crazy.
Yes, Cold War and Vietnam, no big deal. Oh and Korea. Its the media, 24/7 telling them every negative they can come up with. That and the cost of living in cities.
Ultimately I agree with you because ultimately you have to suck it up and overcome whatever life throws in front of you, but what about the world right now makes you think that anything that anybody did would change the system? (Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post)
And ultimately any protest that these people did would be for MORE STUFF. I don't think that's the answer?
I really feel for this young generation, I have nieces and cousins in their teens, a son who is ten, and am trying very hard to understand what they are going through, what messaging they have been exposed to, and for those in their 20s and early 30s, they were really the test group, and I feel for them too, its awful what they have absorbed.
I grew up on a farm working my butt off. If you tried to make an excuse on that property, things would get ugly fast.
So, there is a canyon there between my experience and the experience of this young adult crowd.
I do not think the system is changeable outside of a mass awareness which I think is chemically blocked from ever happening, but you can live outside the system, not entirely, but with the right group of people, it is possible.
All I am saying is this young adult generation, rather than improve or remove themselves from society, basically just sits on it and enjoys what they enjoy about it and effs the rest.
And I think that was goal, to be honest. Call me crazy, but too many variables fell right into place to make this happen for me to believe it is random.
Whenever I consider that it ISN'T random I think about how incompetent governments and government agencies have always been. I think much of what is happening is a consequence of eusocial indoctrination....that is, convincing red-blooded boys to be passive and to shy away from their natural aggression and lust because they are told that it is "toxic masculinity".
As a 12 year old kid I was subjected to bullying but I think it ultimately made me a stronger person. I don't think bullying is in any way a good thing but I think it is also wrong to deny that there will be physical conflict between young men and part of growing up is dealing with people who pose a physical threat to you. You have to use your wits and your fists sometimes when things go very wrong. And in life things occasionally go very wrong. Insulating young people from this and pretending it doesn't exist and that it won't ever happen to them opens the door for psychopaths who will take advantage of the passive new world. There are plenty of people who still really don't give a damn who they hurt and they will prey upon the sheep.
It's no joke being messed with when you're 12. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. I'm glad they've clamped down on bullying.
I learned to be fairly tough I guess but I didn't like it. Some guys I knew were beaten really badly. One kid lost an eye. That's just psychopaths getting away with criminal behaviour.
I found out that one of my abusers became a bouncer on the West Coast and some dude sliced his belly open with a knife.
Well I was picking up my friends 12 year old from school. Jack declared upon entering my car that the world would end in his lifetime. Volcano,.huge things hurling against the earth,.etc. etc. Why scare our kids.
Thats all fine and good if they are willing to make a go at it on their own, leave the system and set up an alternative society, but this is whining and quitting.
Yes, society failed them, but do something about it. Playing video games in your basement and ignoring life because "it sucks" was never an option in human history.
You had to do something about it.
How did "society" fail them? I was born in England right after WW11. We had little to eat and played in bombed out bldg"s. Surely former generations were failed by society. Two class system and not allowed to move up, etc. Difference is we didn't have media telling us we had been "failed" ! Read Main Street.....by Sinclair. Obviously these kids had life too easy. Even in the 1950s kids delivered newspapers. Mowed lawns etc. Whatever went wrong happened after we became a two car, TV in every room and of course computer and games society.
I appreciate your question and I understand the validity of your perspective. My mother was born several years before you, recently deceased, and I get it.
The difference is this, modern children are not, in majority, in the US, given the options or the culture to succeed as you did.
The problem isn't that times are hard, they are in many ways too easy. What you went through breeds fortitude. What these kids are going through breeds entitlement.
And that is society's fault, if blame matters.
Parents fault. Baby Boomers wanted children to have a better life. We over did it. Letting a kid play video games for hours or days is not anything a responsible parent would have done. I have spent time with parents who allowed 1 hour down time after school. Then homework and chores. Kids ate turning out as individuals who will make their own way. These kids are of all ethnicities. They have educated parents. Bernie Sanders suggested parenting classes. I agree with that.
"Whatever went wrong..." -- I appreciate your view and experience, similar to my own, but need to point out that in many places in the US, delivering newspapers (which are essentially defunct) and mowing lawns, as well as other jobs that involve kids working outside the house can be dangerous. One of the "whatever went wrong" things is kidnapping, pedophilia and trafficking of children. A society that tolerates this is "what happened", and what is tolerated today would never have been when you and I were growing up.
Kids mowing lawns is dangerous now?
Those abuses have always existed.Are you aware that until 1965 Christians were taking Native children awsy from parents to breed the indian out of them. 3 out of every 10 died. . They were subjected to every kind of abuse. I was molested at age 6 by a stranger with a knife against my throat. We didn't have the media coverage. Clergy molesting children started centuries ago. We are careful today and for children born into decent families the abuse is less. The
Newborn babies sent home with drug addicted 14 year old mothers and those coming across our border unaccompanied are at great risk. Mowing lawns has been turned over to paid adults. In rural areas the kids still work in the fast food restaurants. Only in the cities have people taken them as a job for life. We can all pay our own children to perform chores. They can mow the lawn and trim the bushes. But we don't.
Post WW2 Britain was a tough time. I was born in the UK in 1956. The stories my dad told me (British Navy WW2) were interesting and his experiences shaped his tough mindset. Going through war can do that to people. I hate war but like the COVID experience it can bring out the best and worst in people.
My dad decided that as a working class dude in England, he'd be better off in the "colonies". It was Canada instead of New Zealand because flying back to see family was easier. It wasn't because Canada was so great. But at least here it was more about what you did than who your parents were.
Thank your Dad for me. He saved my family. Always grateful to the USA.
My Dad Royal Navy Submarine Division WW2. Yes, England a 2 class system people were expected to stay in the low class if born there. We immigrated to USA because my Mom loved American films. It was a mistake because we left behind a very large and loving family. Plus i was almost 13. Lost my very close friend's.
We started off a lot poorer in Canada than if we'd stayed in England. I liked my country but it's become a woke hell with a trust fund Prime Minister who has no connection with the real people of Canada. This is what happens when you elect elitists who have less than average intelligence and no knowledge of the real world and what it takes to survive when you don't have a rich family to bail you out.
Intelligence doesn't equal common sense.
Where did you come from in England. I was born at home. Dean Bank. FERRYHILL, County Durham. Industrial North.
Ipswich,Suffolk.
Very beautiful area. I would have missed it. My cousin immigrated to Canada then applied to come into the USA. Was given legal immigrant status. Late 1960s. 2 weeks after he arrived he was drafted and sent to Vietnam.
My dad was offered a good job in the US. He didn't take it. It was during the Viet Nam war. He told them, "I have a son". We stayed in Canada.
Two rules with the old man. Don't go into the military and you're not to own a motorcycle. He knew what I was like and he wanted to keep me alive. God bless you dad. You're in heaven now. I say that about everybody I loved. Who knows if it's true? Who cares? That's what you say.....it's sappy but it's all you can say when you love somebody and they pass.
You are talking about a time when people had a more aggressive, even defiant, attitude towards life. The problem now is that these people are demoralized. They see no solution, no way out except the "reset" button of death. They need guidance from us that will match their reality enough for them to pay attention to it.
I was born in a time when it was work or starve. No choice. When my grandfather went down a coalmine at age 8, his mother was glad to get his paypacket. We didn't consider choice. Knew we had none if we wanted to survive. My grandmother took in laundry and cleaned houses to feed her nine children. They ate pigeons. For Christmas we recieved nuts and oranges. Fruit a luxury after WW2 in England. Rationed..everything was for 10 years. No choices.
My grandad trapped rabbits to feed the family. My first wife had a brother who owned a pet rabbit. He paid about $300 for medication for this rabbit when it got sick. This was in the 80s. I laughed my ass off at the stupidity of spending $300 on a rabbit. That's just me thinking about my grandad feeding the family with trapped rabbits while this kid spends $300 to cure a fricking rabbit. I know. Perspective is everything.
It's like my dog. I love him but he's 14. I'm not going to spend thousands on a dog to keep him alive for another few months. I wouldn't do it for myself and fortunately I can make intelligent decisions for my old friend. I won't let him suffer so that I can have more time with him. That's just self-indulgent bullshit and I don't get it. Sure, I have enough money that I could spend 10 grand keeping my old dog alive but when you think about it in any rational way, that is insanity. It's selfish and it's cruel and people think that they are being kind. They are just being sentimental. Your dog doesn't even really know that he's a dog. You just project all of these human thoughts on to your dog. Of course we don't know what a dog really thinks but consider this. One minute he's biting you and a few seconds later he's licking you. He has no concept of the future....maybe some memory of the past. Don't make your dog suffer so that you aren't lonely and grieving. He'll be in dog heaven. God bless him.
Best news from the Vatican was when the Pope said dogs go to heaven. I'm not Catholic but I loved him for that.
Sometimes I think my dog will go to hell....he attacked a deer....just a baby...but he was bred to kill. He's a cross between a Yorkshire Terrier and a Jack Russell Terrier. That's a lot of terrier in an 18 pound package. Genetically modified dog. I love him but by human standards he's a nasty little bastard. I'll miss him terribly when he passes. We have a bet amongst my friends about who will die first, my dog or I. I didn't even want a damned dog. My wife and kids wanted a dog. Now he's my dog and he's my best friend.
I had a 5lb Yorke. Most vicious dog I have ever owned. She attacked a Husky while with my daughter. Husky won. In hospital a week. Stood in the window, they go to the floor, tubes sticking out from her, Husky walks by she barks and growls. Just wait until I get out of here. Of course raised in Scotland to attack the rats that went under the looms. My husband would say if that dog was any bigger she would be dangerous. I named her Tipperary. My Granda used to sing the song "Its a long way to Tipperary" Good memory.
There's something so admirable about the little sods. They're so cocky and fearless. Bentley is my first dog. I grew up in a 'cat' family.
When we first received Bentley (from a co-worker who had to leave him at home alone all day. making him unhappy) we didn't get along. He would bite me and I regret to say that I hit him.
I'm sorry Bentley. I didn't hit him hard. It didn't matter anyhow. He still bit me. I didn't know dogs. He sleeps with me now. When I get up, he gets up. If I go outside, he goes outside. He follows me everywhere. I take him everywhere with me. He doesn't bite me very often anymore except when he wants to steal the cat's food and I try to get him away from the bowl. Then he bites me. I don't hit him. I just call him a vicious bastard. He just doesn't get it. He's the boss and why don't I understand? I guess I do now. Respect.
Our friends have a Bernese Mountain/Poodle. Huge dog. Bentley attacked him. Bentley is not invited back. Now I understand the saying "a man's best friend is his dog".
I often wonder if Yorkies have zero idea about how small they are. They are David attacking Goliath. They must have heard the story. Tippy lived to be 17. Thank you your story was the most upbeat I have read all week.
LOL. I don't think dogs have a good idea about their size. My little dog will attack a large dog but he does seem to have an understanding about how dangerously aggressive the other dog is. He'll avoid a dog that is overtly aggressive.
So he's not completely oblivious to danger, apparently.
What's curious is that those people rose to the occasion when they were in a situation that was very physically challenging. But when modern people are emotionally challenged by what basically amounts to propaganda, they cave in. Except for some places, the physical stress is really not that bad. It seems that the mismatch between the emotional and the physical drives people crazy.
Yes. I see that too!
No cars. No TV sets. No phones. My Dad rode a bike to work. Same here in many places.
Yes, Cold War and Vietnam, no big deal. Oh and Korea. Its the media, 24/7 telling them every negative they can come up with. That and the cost of living in cities.
Ultimately I agree with you because ultimately you have to suck it up and overcome whatever life throws in front of you, but what about the world right now makes you think that anything that anybody did would change the system? (Perhaps I'm misunderstanding your post)
And ultimately any protest that these people did would be for MORE STUFF. I don't think that's the answer?
We are on the same page.
I really feel for this young generation, I have nieces and cousins in their teens, a son who is ten, and am trying very hard to understand what they are going through, what messaging they have been exposed to, and for those in their 20s and early 30s, they were really the test group, and I feel for them too, its awful what they have absorbed.
I grew up on a farm working my butt off. If you tried to make an excuse on that property, things would get ugly fast.
So, there is a canyon there between my experience and the experience of this young adult crowd.
I do not think the system is changeable outside of a mass awareness which I think is chemically blocked from ever happening, but you can live outside the system, not entirely, but with the right group of people, it is possible.
All I am saying is this young adult generation, rather than improve or remove themselves from society, basically just sits on it and enjoys what they enjoy about it and effs the rest.
And I think that was goal, to be honest. Call me crazy, but too many variables fell right into place to make this happen for me to believe it is random.
Whenever I consider that it ISN'T random I think about how incompetent governments and government agencies have always been. I think much of what is happening is a consequence of eusocial indoctrination....that is, convincing red-blooded boys to be passive and to shy away from their natural aggression and lust because they are told that it is "toxic masculinity".
As a 12 year old kid I was subjected to bullying but I think it ultimately made me a stronger person. I don't think bullying is in any way a good thing but I think it is also wrong to deny that there will be physical conflict between young men and part of growing up is dealing with people who pose a physical threat to you. You have to use your wits and your fists sometimes when things go very wrong. And in life things occasionally go very wrong. Insulating young people from this and pretending it doesn't exist and that it won't ever happen to them opens the door for psychopaths who will take advantage of the passive new world. There are plenty of people who still really don't give a damn who they hurt and they will prey upon the sheep.
My husband raised in an Italian area of Chicago. Blonde blue eyed kid. Same for him. Beaten on a regular basis til accepted. He grew up tough.
It's no joke being messed with when you're 12. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. I'm glad they've clamped down on bullying.
I learned to be fairly tough I guess but I didn't like it. Some guys I knew were beaten really badly. One kid lost an eye. That's just psychopaths getting away with criminal behaviour.
I found out that one of my abusers became a bouncer on the West Coast and some dude sliced his belly open with a knife.
Karma you bastard.
Often boys with that kind of anger have been abused at home. They continue into adulthood. Very sad. Yes Karma!
It's not random.
Well I was picking up my friends 12 year old from school. Jack declared upon entering my car that the world would end in his lifetime. Volcano,.huge things hurling against the earth,.etc. etc. Why scare our kids.