I haven't denied, Palestinian civilians are getting killed. Japanese civilians were killed after Pearl Harbor. Did the US go too far?
Do you want me to repeat the question I asked Daniel? What is your answer, Jon?
"On the question of intentions Daniel, does it matter that the Oct 7 attack by Hamas was carried out with the deliberate intent to rape and torture as many civilians as possible? And that non-Hamas Palestinians ventured out of Gaza to "me-too" the atrocities? Israel, OTOH, has made genuine efforts to minimize harm to civilians while attempting to eliminated Hamas terrorists, but yet killed civilians- not only Palis, but it's own Israeli civilians. In short, do intentions matter? Daniel?"
You can do better than Daniel just by providing an answer. Any answer.
I’m trying to say that I wish you listen to Glenn Greenwald’s perspective on this issue, which I think is a very fair-minded one, and he documents the facts he asserts. I don’t think you can cite any proof that a majority or even large minority of Palestinians supported the atrocities committed by Hamas soldiers against maybe 1,000 Israelis, so killing tens of thousands of them and ruining the lives of over two million others, half of which are under 18, is a barbaric response imo which most countries in the world are condemning and I expect there will be disastrous consequences for both Israel and the U.S. before long. If you listen to Greenwald and can cite any errors in the facts he asserts, I’m all ears.
You lost me when you wrote "I don’t think you can cite any proof that a majority or even large minority of Palestinians supported the atrocities committed by Hamas soldiers against maybe 1,000 Israelis..."
Poll shows Palestinians back Oct. 7 attack on Israel, support for Hamas rises
I found all those in <60 sec. If I can find them, why can't you?
Hamas launches a surprise barbaric attack on Israeli civilians. And kills, let's say, 1,000. You're saying Israel can retaliate, but they have to stop when they've killed 1,000 Palis?
First, the poll was taken after the Israeli bombardment had been going on for some time. Second, try going to the source of the poll instead of biased reporting about it. The following is just one paragraph from the full poll results at https://pcpsr.org/en/node/963
"Most of the questions asked in this last quarter of 2023 revolved around the October 7 offensive and the subsequent Israel-Hamas war and ground invasion of the Gaza Strip. It also covered the debate about the future of the Gaza Strip after the war and the Palestinian perception of the positions of the various relevant countries and actors. Findings indicate that a majority of the respondents believe that Hamas' decision to carry out the offensive is correct, and believe that the attack came in response to “settler attacks on Al-Aqsa Mosque and West Bank residents, and for the release of Palestinian prisoners.” It is worth noting that there are significant differences between the attitudes of the residents of the West Bank compared to those of the Gaza Strip, in terms of the “correctness” of the Hamas' decision (and other matters), as the attitudes of Gazans tend to show a greater degree of skepticism about that decision. It is clear from the findings that believing in the “correctness” of Hamas' decision does not mean support for all acts that might have been committed by Hamas fighters on October 7. The overwhelming majority of respondents say that they have not seen videos from international or social media showing atrocities committed by Hamas members against Israeli civilians that day, such as the killing of women and children in their homes. Indeed, more than 90% believe that Hamas fighters did not commit the atrocities contained in these videos. When asked what is or is not allowed in war, under international humanitarian law, the findings indicate that the vast majority believes that attacking or killing civilians in their homes is not permissible. The majority (except in the Gaza Strip) also believe that taking civilians as hostages or prisoners of war is also not permissible."
And then:
"Support for Hamas has more than tripled in the West Bank compared to three months ago. In the Gaza Strip, support for Hamas increased but not significantly. Despite the increase in its popularity, the majority in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip does not support Hamas. It is worth noting that support for Hamas usually rises temporarily during or immediately after a war and then returns to the previous level several months after the end of the war."
And they only polled adults, who comprise less than half the population, while the entire population is being bombed.
Re: "When asked what is or is not allowed in war, under international humanitarian law, the findings indicate that the vast majority believes that attacking or killing civilians in their homes is not permissible." Apparently the vast majority have forgotten the wholesale bombing of European cities, chock full of civilians, during WWII.
Listen to yourself. You initially wrote, "I don’t think you can cite any proof that a majority or even large minority of Palestinians supported the atrocities committed by Hamas soldiers against maybe 1,000 Israelis..."
Here, you've written a lengthy explanation of why the thing you said couldn't exist exists.
P.S. Are you aware that young Gaza’s children are having limbs amputated without anesthetics because Israel won’t let medicines in? Is that how they are displaying sensitivity towards the people in Gaza? And watch the videos Greenwald plays of Israelis calling for the complete destruction of Gaza. This is mass formation psychosis at its worst, imo, and that applies as well to Christians who support the barbarity because they believe a “strong Israel” is a necessary prerequisite to the “Second Coming” of Jesus. Stark raving insanity, imo.
Paul Craig Roberts is a very religious Christian who was the primary architect, I believe, of President Reagan’s economic policies, and he is strongly against what Israel and the US are doing in Gaza. PaulCraigRoberts.org
https://rumble.com/v42tfen-system-update-204.html
What are you trying to say?
I haven't denied, Palestinian civilians are getting killed. Japanese civilians were killed after Pearl Harbor. Did the US go too far?
Do you want me to repeat the question I asked Daniel? What is your answer, Jon?
"On the question of intentions Daniel, does it matter that the Oct 7 attack by Hamas was carried out with the deliberate intent to rape and torture as many civilians as possible? And that non-Hamas Palestinians ventured out of Gaza to "me-too" the atrocities? Israel, OTOH, has made genuine efforts to minimize harm to civilians while attempting to eliminated Hamas terrorists, but yet killed civilians- not only Palis, but it's own Israeli civilians. In short, do intentions matter? Daniel?"
You can do better than Daniel just by providing an answer. Any answer.
I’m trying to say that I wish you listen to Glenn Greenwald’s perspective on this issue, which I think is a very fair-minded one, and he documents the facts he asserts. I don’t think you can cite any proof that a majority or even large minority of Palestinians supported the atrocities committed by Hamas soldiers against maybe 1,000 Israelis, so killing tens of thousands of them and ruining the lives of over two million others, half of which are under 18, is a barbaric response imo which most countries in the world are condemning and I expect there will be disastrous consequences for both Israel and the U.S. before long. If you listen to Greenwald and can cite any errors in the facts he asserts, I’m all ears.
You lost me when you wrote "I don’t think you can cite any proof that a majority or even large minority of Palestinians supported the atrocities committed by Hamas soldiers against maybe 1,000 Israelis..."
Poll shows Palestinians back Oct. 7 attack on Israel, support for Hamas rises
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
Palestinian poll shows a rise in Hamas support
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
Poll shows soaring Palestinian support for Hamas; 72% back October 7 atrocities
https://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-shows-soaring-support-for-hamas-in-west-bank-as-90-say-abbas-should-resign/
I found all those in <60 sec. If I can find them, why can't you?
Hamas launches a surprise barbaric attack on Israeli civilians. And kills, let's say, 1,000. You're saying Israel can retaliate, but they have to stop when they've killed 1,000 Palis?
Fuck that shit.
First, the poll was taken after the Israeli bombardment had been going on for some time. Second, try going to the source of the poll instead of biased reporting about it. The following is just one paragraph from the full poll results at https://pcpsr.org/en/node/963
"Most of the questions asked in this last quarter of 2023 revolved around the October 7 offensive and the subsequent Israel-Hamas war and ground invasion of the Gaza Strip. It also covered the debate about the future of the Gaza Strip after the war and the Palestinian perception of the positions of the various relevant countries and actors. Findings indicate that a majority of the respondents believe that Hamas' decision to carry out the offensive is correct, and believe that the attack came in response to “settler attacks on Al-Aqsa Mosque and West Bank residents, and for the release of Palestinian prisoners.” It is worth noting that there are significant differences between the attitudes of the residents of the West Bank compared to those of the Gaza Strip, in terms of the “correctness” of the Hamas' decision (and other matters), as the attitudes of Gazans tend to show a greater degree of skepticism about that decision. It is clear from the findings that believing in the “correctness” of Hamas' decision does not mean support for all acts that might have been committed by Hamas fighters on October 7. The overwhelming majority of respondents say that they have not seen videos from international or social media showing atrocities committed by Hamas members against Israeli civilians that day, such as the killing of women and children in their homes. Indeed, more than 90% believe that Hamas fighters did not commit the atrocities contained in these videos. When asked what is or is not allowed in war, under international humanitarian law, the findings indicate that the vast majority believes that attacking or killing civilians in their homes is not permissible. The majority (except in the Gaza Strip) also believe that taking civilians as hostages or prisoners of war is also not permissible."
And then:
"Support for Hamas has more than tripled in the West Bank compared to three months ago. In the Gaza Strip, support for Hamas increased but not significantly. Despite the increase in its popularity, the majority in both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip does not support Hamas. It is worth noting that support for Hamas usually rises temporarily during or immediately after a war and then returns to the previous level several months after the end of the war."
And they only polled adults, who comprise less than half the population, while the entire population is being bombed.
Re: "When asked what is or is not allowed in war, under international humanitarian law, the findings indicate that the vast majority believes that attacking or killing civilians in their homes is not permissible." Apparently the vast majority have forgotten the wholesale bombing of European cities, chock full of civilians, during WWII.
Perhaps they haven’t forgotten, but are just more civilized.
Listen to yourself. You initially wrote, "I don’t think you can cite any proof that a majority or even large minority of Palestinians supported the atrocities committed by Hamas soldiers against maybe 1,000 Israelis..."
Here, you've written a lengthy explanation of why the thing you said couldn't exist exists.
This is getting to be comical.
And here are some other points of view you may wish to consider:
"The War in Gaza: It's Not About Hamas. It's About Demographics" https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/the-war-in-gaza-its-not-about-hamas-its-about-demographics/
"Why Are Israelis Obsessed with Killing Palestinian Children?" https://www.unz.com/kbarrett/why-are-israelis-obsessed-with-killing-palestinian-children/"
Israeli Rogue Intentions Towards Gaza’s Gas Fields Behind the Official and Declared Causes of Invading Gaza’s Strip" https://www.vtforeignpolicy.com/2023/12/israeli-bad-intentions-on-gazas-gas-fields/
Can't you read? "...the findings indicate that the vast majority believes that attacking or killing civilians in their homes is not permissible."
Please listen to Greenwald. He is a voice of sanity in a sea of madness, imo.
P.S. Are you aware that young Gaza’s children are having limbs amputated without anesthetics because Israel won’t let medicines in? Is that how they are displaying sensitivity towards the people in Gaza? And watch the videos Greenwald plays of Israelis calling for the complete destruction of Gaza. This is mass formation psychosis at its worst, imo, and that applies as well to Christians who support the barbarity because they believe a “strong Israel” is a necessary prerequisite to the “Second Coming” of Jesus. Stark raving insanity, imo.
I don't expect them to show "sensitivity" to the Palestinian people. I wouldn't if I were in their shoes.
And you wouldn't if your wife and children were Oct 7 victims.
Let's get one thing straight. If the Palestinians could snap their fingers and wipe out every single Israeli, they'd do it without a 2nd thought.
Pali's peace terms: They'll agree to peace when Israel is eliminated. Nothing less is acceptable.
Don't expect Israel to commit suicide for the sake of peace.
Paul Craig Roberts is a very religious Christian who was the primary architect, I believe, of President Reagan’s economic policies, and he is strongly against what Israel and the US are doing in Gaza. PaulCraigRoberts.org
You realize you shot what little credibility you had out of the water with that, "I don’t think you can cite any proof..." gambit, don't you?
You and Paul Craig Roberts are entitled to your opinions. I've given you an opportunity to change my mind, but you're not cutting it.