Puppet Masters of the Pandemic. Part 2: What Did The CIA Do in Wuhan?"

Part 2 of an interview with the New American Magazine

From Part I - the interview left of with the big question of who is the puppet master? What's behind all this propaganda and control over the past three years? I spoke of different theories that people had put out there, and ended with the beginning of the hypothesis that the CIA may in fact be that controlling element. Part II picks up the thesis there.

From Part I: Dr. Robert Malone: We <Bret Weinstein, Steve Kirsch and myself> talked about emergent phenomena, that this might just be the consequence of simultaneous things happening and separate actors acting on their own initiatives, and the result would be a vector sum of things (controlling the propaganda and globalized governmental policies). I've never felt comfortable with that as an explanation for why we would see this amazing harmonization of propaganda, censorship, messaging strategies, technical strategies like the purchasing of influencers, et cetera, globally.

Then, a colleague ... a close colleague of mine who actually employs a former director of the CIA were discussing who is the puppet master? What's behind all this? We had a discussion in which he related a conversation with his employee (former DCIA) regarding the global power and reach of the CIA, in which the former DCIA concluded that the CIA was currently the most powerful organization in the world, perhaps the most powerful global organization in human history. This is one of those things I haven't wanted to believe…

Part II

If you are subjected on a daily basis to this advanced technology of nudging and information control and censorship, control of narrative, <governments and NGO> cooperating with press, cooperating with social media so that every single thing you encounter is manipulated to support the agenda and the narrative of whomever the dominant force is that is propagating this? How can you come to any autonomous conclusion about what should be done?

Why would any American citizen want to believe that their country was intimately involved in potentially driving this whole COVID crisis? I can't imagine that. And yet I keep seeing signs of our intelligence community and particularly Five Eyes alliance (with GCHQ in the UK) being deeply involved, and appearing to be the primary driver. For instance, MI6 (The Secret Intelligence Service of the United Kingdom which is involved with the covert overseas collection and analysis of human intelligence) being involved in the editing of Wikipedia including my own entries, as well as anything having to do with Ivermectin. The reveals from Australia, New Zealand, and particularly Canada, about the involvement of each of their departments of defense organizations in deployment of these very aggressive fifth-generation warfare campaigns against their own citizens. The Nudge Units in the UK, the harmonization of messaging, particularly in methods deployed across the Five Eyes nations, and as we've often previously explained as well, they planned it all out during Event 201, which was sponsored by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. Maybe that's why that all happened.

Veronica : The WHO and the Johns Hopkins University.

Dr. Robert Malone: Right, the Johns Hopkins has, particularly that unit, a longstanding affiliation with the CIA and then...

Veronica : They have their tentacles everywhere nationally? Oh my gosh.

Dr. Robert Malone: Absolutely. Okay. I'm talking to this with my colleague and he says, "Robert, you know?" As I mentioned, this gentleman happens to employ a former director of the CIA. He said, "I asked my colleague, my worker the other day. Does he think the CIA is the most powerful organization in the world right now?" And the gentleman thought about it for a while and he said,

"Yes, it is. “(The CIA) may be the most powerful organization in the history of humankind, globally."

Okay. The CIA.

I run into people saying this in Europe, my European friends often... well, there are various fringe political elements. Many are socialists. So, I always discounted what they would say, but they would say that, for instance, Italy has two masters. They're Brussels - the European Union, and the CIA. When they would say CIA, my internal dialog was like, "State Department maybe. United States government maybe, why CIA?"

The CIA is an organization that would have the capability to deploy this. This is an organization that did found the World Economic Forum, that's well documented. This is an organization that was intimately involved in what was going on at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. This is an organization that, through its former employee (and still intimately integrated) Dr. Michael Callahan, was busy spreading disinformation to me in real time. I experienced that as a first-person experience. And then I've had various third parties come to me and share various information about what they've observed within “the agency”. That's what led me finally to the tipping point of coming to the conclusion that I can't explain the cascade of events any other way, other than concluding that our intelligence community and the extended Five Eyes alliance were at the center of all of this.

Veronica :  If so, what were they trying to accomplish?

Dr. Robert Malone: I've just gone through basically hypothesis testing and what are the data supporting it? And now you're asking me about motivation, which I always resist, but I'm going to speculate.

Number one: as I mentioned on Bannon, one of the things that is true about the modern intelligence community, the CIA, is its hyper compartmentalized. We have bureaucracies, administrative groups within this structure that are semi-autonomous, and even more so because of In-Q-Tel. It is a fact that the CIA through DARPA created Moderna. In-Q-Tel continues to capitalize the development and deployment of mRNA vaccines. The mRNA vaccine technology is intimately linked to the intelligence community. For whatever reason, they have selected this as their horse that they're going to ride for medical countermeasure development and rapid response.

Veronica : I'm sorry, all mRNA vaccines or only Moderna?

Dr. Robert Malone: All mRNA vaccines. This was another thread that I was surprised to learn about is Scott Gottlieb of Pfizer-

Veronica : /FDA.

Dr. Robert Malone: Yes- Formerly FDA. He has strong intelligence community ties and he directly intervened with US policy at a point in time when there was a sudden shift from an emphasis on Moderna to Pfizer, and I know from other colleagues that have contacted me during this outbreak that sat on the management committee for Moderna for Operation Warp Speed, that it was not Moderna managing that product. It was the US government/DoD managing that product development.

Veronica : Operation Warp Speed was managed, well, officially at least by the HHS and DOD together.

Dr. Robert Malone: Yes, well put.

Veronica : Well, it was made to facilitate the public-private partnership.

Dr. Robert Malone: Well, you're choosing key words.

<public-private partnership is a modern euphemism for corporatism, which is itself the true meaning of fascism, not the distorted meaning which corporate media has created and weaponized as a synonym for “far right” when in fact fascism emerged from socialism>

Veronica : It's the keywords from official description on their website.

Dr. Robert Malone: Absolutely.

Veronica : I'm not taking it out of my head.

Dr. Robert Malone: The government set up a committee of government personnel that made daily operational decisions about the development and selection of dosing and other characteristics of that vaccine. The way I've heard it from other sources is that Tony Fauci was actually really aggravated by Rick Bright. You remember Rick Bright, former head of BARDA, eventually got run out and is now with the Rockefeller?. Okay. He was really aggravated by Rick Bright unilaterally authorizing large block of funding for the development of the Janssen adenovirus vaccine, which now has been pulled from the market. That he only wanted to see advancement of the mRNA tech. You'll recall that the Moderna, or the original version of the Moderna vaccine was jointly developed with the Vaccine Research Center at NIH, which is directly under the guidance of Tony Fauci (this included large royalty payments to directly NIAID employees, including Tony Fauci. No conflict on interest there).

By the way, it's always amazes me, people blame me for these vaccines. They never cite the people that actually engineered them at the NIH and at Moderna, but that's another tangent (it is pretty clear that many of these people are getting paid by the US government to attack me via 5th gen warfare - basically propaganda).

Anyway, the govies who received these large royalty payments have all pretty much retired with very large paychecks because of the royalties that they've received. Of course, no one will disclose how much those royalties were, not even to congressional investigators. That's a whole another thread.

We had the government directly involved in managing the development of the Moderna products. We had the CIA through DARPA funding Moderna directly. They seeded it. They created it, okay. We have In-Q-Tel, the largely autonomous now venture capital arm of the CIA. They've got so much cash, they don't really need a government budget anymore to do whatever they want to do. This gets to the point of how powerful the CIA is.

It is largely increasingly autonomous from the federal budget and certainly autonomous from congressional oversight because a lot of this is hidden in the dark budget. When we talk about administrative state, it isn't just a ethereal buzzword or slang that one throws about because it's convenient and it gets people excited. It is an actual thing. It is increasingly autonomous.

A lot of this stuff is managed by the senior executive service, which is this group of federal employees that are immune from being fired, as I have written about before. They have their own flag. (These 7,000+/-) people that are the permanent bureaucracy that run the government. The senior executive service really runs the government. The president doesn't. This convergence of all these threads is fascinating as information has come out about the hiding of stuff from Congress and congressional oversight concerning UAPs. One of the quotes that came out that I think is just absolutely golden is the senior executive service and a lot of these administrators see elected politicians (including the President) as “temporary government employees”.

From their point of view, the politicians are just here for a little while and they can disregard them, because the senior executive service really runs the country. That's where we're at right now.

What we have seen over the last three years, at least what I think I've seen very clearly, is the fusion of the federal bureaucracy and the intelligence community. We see this with all of the widespread censorship, for instance, that's come out in the Twitter files and now in the Facebook files. We see this direct involvement of a huge range of agencies from Department of Homeland Security, FBI, CIA, et cetera, directly intervening.

Of course, it's really gone on steroids under the Biden administration, with the executive branch directly intervening with the media and social media to promote their approved narrative and to suppress alternative narratives, which is really what the censorship is. That's where we're at, we really do have a rogue administration, a rogue nation state, and we absolutely have a rogue intelligence community, which for whatever reason believes that it's in its interest, its global geopolitical interests to cooperate with the CCP in this area of bio welfare technology development. This appeared to have happened at Wuhan Institute of Virology. We've got multiple lines of evidence that-

Veronica : Who do you intend to use this biotechnology against, if we are geopolitical enemies, then who are we to deploy this thing.

Dr. Robert Malone: That's the thing, okay. Now we have-

Veronica : Well, exactly. We're not what we're saying. My point is... Well, to me it looks like this virus was developed to be deployed against all of us.

Dr. Robert Malone: When you get down to the why, all you can do is speculate because we don't have any direct evidence. That's why this recent essay that we put out that had a deep dive into the Kissinger Report, and subsequent national security directives from Gerald Ford and multiple other memos which establishes depopulation as a US government priority, capping global population at eight billion, which we almost hit in 2020, a coincidence at best. <Global human population has now exceeded 8 billion>. We've had these policies which extend broadly and are strangely consistent with a number of the research activities and tests that have been deployed by the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation in Africa and in India, having to do a sterilization of girls in particular. The advocacy for abortion, advocacy for surgical sterilization of males and females, advocacy of development of new hormonal injectable therapies that were long-lasting, etc.

That's one example of a possible agenda, and it's one that many people have speculated about throughout this, that this was really about a depopulation agenda. I can't say that it was about a depopulation agenda or was it about an economic agenda (as Ernst Wolff has advanced) or was it about something else? What I can say-

Veronica : But none of those are mutually exclusive?

Dr. Robert Malone: None of them are mutually exclusive, and I can say we now have the evidence to say that...

Well, yes, in fact, talking about a depopulation agenda on the part of the US government as national policy is not a conspiracy theory. It is absolutely grounded in documentation that is now been declassified. It's publicly available. It was codified by Henry Kissinger. Henry Kissinger is absolutely one of the prime mentors of Klaus Schwab. Henry Kissinger was intimately involved in the creation of the World Economic Forum. Henry Kissinger just came back from meetings with Xi in which he was widely lauded as a great friend of the CCP in China. I conclude that the preponderance of evidence, in my mind, suggests that the intelligence community was involved before, during and during the technical events of management of the COVID crisis. And I know that for a fact because of-

Veronica : Vaccination campaigns?

Dr. Robert Malone: The development of the vaccines and the various public policies that were deployed, including the ventilation, overuse of toxic pharmaceuticals that were not tested adequately.

Veronica : Maybe they were?

Dr. Robert Malone: They did not meet standard protocols at the FDA for testing. That's why I'm saying. Many speculate about the incentivized use of remdesivir as well as the over ventilation in US hospital treatment protocols as an intentional act for depopulation? I can't go there because I don't have evidence saying that these were causally linked. That's speculation. I do have evidence that says, "But we did have a depopulation agenda." That's a fact. I do have evidence that say that we intended to cap global population at eight billion. I do have data saying that we were hitting eight billion (globally) in the beginning of 2020, but I don't have the smoking gun memo internally saying, "Hey, we should implement these kinds of policies because it would benefit our social security system, reduce the burden of elderly and diseased within the United States government and all the associated expenses with that."

I don't have evidence directly saying, "We're going to cooperate with the CCP on this." We do have all of this other surrounding evidence though. And then there's the challenge of understanding just who (or what organization) is big enough and powerful enough to pull this whole thing off.

I don't know of another organization other than the intelligence community with its network of capabilities at WEF, United Nations, WHO. Remember, United Nations deployed hundreds of paid trolls to attack people on the internet. The UK employed many, many paid trolls through the 77th Brigade- this is a fact- to attack people, including US citizens on the internet. The CDC paid through the foundation for CDC for organization and implementation of cyberstalking campaigns against those that were speaking on approved facts or narratives. That's a fact.

Veronica : Do you have enough evidence about the vaccines being intentionally harmful?

Dr. Robert Malone: No.

Veronica : How about them being so harmful that they need to be pulled out from the market?

Dr. Robert Malone: Yes. Those data are clear, I called for them being withdrawn well over a year ago. Actually, I think it's almost two years ago now, that they should be withdrawn from the market because they were neither safe nor effective at preventing infection, replication, and spread- that they could never be useful. We've known for almost two years now, if not more, because of a leak to the Washington Post from the CDC (which I covered at the time) of a slide deck that showed that there was no way that you could achieve herd immunity with these leaky products. That's been known for a very long time. It was just covered up. The engineering of the vaccines is a derivative of the engineering of the virus because the spike protein in the vaccines is derived from the engineered spike protein of the virus. So, the gain-of-function research that created the virus is upstream of the development of the engineered vaccine, which was dependent on the engineering of the virus.

Dr. Robert Malone: There is a intimate linkage there, whether conscious or not, between the events in engineering the virus that now appear to be clear at the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the engineering of the vaccine. Was it just that the personnel at the NIH/NIAID Vaccine Research Center were naive, and they were just following the prior literature that spike protein was highly immunogenic in prior research for MERS and SARS-1 vaccine development, all of which had failed, by the way, to produce an adequate vaccine? And they just took those data and that method and applied it here because they were under the press of time to try to get something out the door?

Veronica : But they have post marketing data already. Do you think that the NIH and all these other entities, including the intelligence community and DOD are not looking into those?

Dr. Robert Malone: Again, I agree with you that the circumstantial data is not consistent with a total benign explanation.

Dr. Robert Malone: You're dead on. This is the largest experiment performed on human beings in the history of the world.

Veronica : The more you know...

Dr. Robert Malone: What they're doing is they're forcing vaccination on people, and I believe they're killing people with this vaccination.

Dr. Robert Malone: It's murder. They are basically murdering people in hospitals <with the approved remdesivir-ventilation protocols>.

The all-cause mortality we know is now higher in the vaccinated group than the unvaccinated group.

Dr. Robert Malone: How we ever get to the bottom of this? I have no idea because as I've said repeatedly, the US government has got a strong disincentive to ever come clean on this because if we ever had smoking gun showing that it was the US Intelligence Community cooperating with the CCP that gave rise to this global event, it could trigger mass protests and international legal actions. All of this was an event, which in retrospect was clearly over-hyped, and in retrospect, clearly engineered. Thus it is fair to conclude that the “Pandemic" was engineered. To conclude otherwise is to disregard all the data. To disregard all these phenomena like the coordinated control of information and the censorship and all of that which was deployed globally.

Veronica : We have 11 entities within all three branches of the United States governments that are tasked to oversee intelligence community. Why are they not doing their job? Is it because they're not suicidal?

Dr. Robert Malone: Why won't the House and Senate investigate rigorously? Again, that's something you have to speculate about. We're not going to get Mitch McConnell on the record saying one thing or another about why this is the case. You've documented, and all of us collectively have documented the many conflicts of interest. I mentioned previously Scott Gottlieb moving back and forth between FDA, apparently intelligence community and Pfizer representing the interests of Pfizer.

We have Scott Gottlieb directly interacting with Twitter, trying to get information censored which conflicted with the controlled narrative. This is my point. When you look at the preponderance of evidence, the intelligence community in the US government have been so intimately involved in all aspects of the control and propagation of the messaging disinformation, treatment protocols, management protocols. For instance, the whole world accepted six foot social distancing, and we know that that was the consequence of basically a seat-of-the-pants estimate as we heard from Bob Redfield tell Congress. <And that logic was in turn imported from the CCP>

Yet it was propagated globally as the law, as the way things have to be. If we ever wanted an example to demonstrate how powerful the United States is currently on the world stage, one only needs look at the harmonized global response to this pathogen; which in retrospect is not much of a pathogen. The pandemic was greatly oversold in terms of the risk associated in this virus. We now know that, particularly in children (and young adults), if they don't have major pre-existing conditions, the risk <of death from COVID> is negligible. We now know that there was an intentional structure set up to over-represent the number of deaths in the United States, and they're kind of hoist on their own petard over that because now US has one of the worst mortality rates (officially).

But the problem is that those data are all contaminated because of over reporting. Because we know that they deployed a faulty PCR test. In retrospect, it's mind boggling that the CDC would deploy a faulty PCR test that was prone to high false positive rate and contaminated. The only benign explanation you can come up with is incompetence. And it's as I've said repeatedly, you can't tell the difference between incompetence and maleficence. We can't rule out that there wasn't an agenda here that had nothing to do with competence and maybe had nothing to do with infectious disease or with this virus. We can't rule that out. That I don't think can be debated anymore.

Veronica : What we also cannot rule out is that the preparations for the next pandemic is well underway. The White House just launched a permanent Office of the Pandemic Preparedness and Response Policy, and the WHO is actively negotiating its new pandemic convention as well as the amendments to the International Health Regulations (IHR). And of course, the pandemic simulations are taking place. How likely is the next pandemic?

Dr. Robert Malone: I get that question... At one level, I can't imagine a future in which we will not have a virus circulating throughout the world, a novel virus. That's just biology. That's been going on forever. There's nothing new in that except for now we have this massive propaganda and press machine, just like we have about climate change, that is weaponizing this fact that infectious disease happens and has always happened within human populations and in animal populations. We never talk about the animal populations except the people talking about One Health. There's no doubt that there will be more infectious disease events, and that viral variants will circulate the globe. There's also no doubt that the human species has co-evolved with viral pathogens for the history of its evolution and has remarkable capabilities, which we call natural immunity, for responding to these pathogen variants that crop up from time to time.

There is no doubt that children- because of in their thymus, this organ that controls particularly T-cell development and recognition of self versus non-self- that children are particularly well adapted to novel viruses. A strong case we made it's actually good for them (when they're children) to be exposed to these things because it gives rise to long-lived natural immunity. Often vaccines don't produce as good immunity in the general population as does natural infection (at the cost of some fraction of children having paralytic disease or whatever the other symptoms are). But hey, with vaccines, we accept some fraction of children are going to be damaged by the vaccines. That's a fact. That's why we have that vaccines program set up for liability coverage. This will happen, and we're now in an environment where everything gets weaponized for political and economic advantage. We also have now an industry that not only benefits but it is linked to deployment of propaganda, the censorship industrial complex. Also, increasingly, corporate media is dependent on those financial relationships <with pharma and the government> because their business model is failing.

We have a industry focused on this new “defense” domain of “biodefense”, which is enormously profitable, has this great business model as the company Emergent biodefense shows. Where a company can produce a biologic product and puts it into a government stockpile. Then whether or not it's used, like the smallpox vaccine - because the biologics expire after a certain period of time, they have to be renewed, so the stockpile has to be renewed. It is the perfect cash cow. We know that we've got a situation for that industry where they have a single buyer, the government, that purchases the product and also regulates the product and then stockpiles, “markets” (via mandates and various propaganda pressure) and distributes the product.

They purchase the product, they regulate the product, they market the product, they store the product, they distribute the product. They can mandate the product. From the standpoint of Pfizer, it's a perfect business model. You couldn't imagine a better one, all on the back of taxpayers.

We've seen that governments are quite willing to get into a private public partnership, a corporatist relationship, which I argue is the essence of what true fascism is, involving governments all over the world. Furthermore, that these pharmaceutical companies in some cases will act rather aggressively to promote their own interests above and beyond the interests of the population, the populace or the government ostensibly they're serving. We see that with these various contracts that were set up by Pfizer, in which nation states had to promise not to do release testing and other characterization or share data about the effectiveness or toxicity of the products under pain of risk of losing national assets like airports and harbors to Pfizer. This is just incredible and Pfizer did this through the weaponization of fear.

That's the other thing is that you had this conversion of interest between pharma and whatever this global entity is, which I assert is the US Intelligence Community, to deploy fear-based propaganda in order to advance what arguably was a public health agenda. This was enormously profitable. It resulted in increased dependency of many nation states around the world on the national security apparatus of the United States.

We talk about green colonialism or green imperialism. This is another variant of that. A foreign government must buy our technology and our products in order to (fill in the blank)... If you look underneath the words that are within the IHR (WHO International Health Regulation Amendments), for instance, which you were just mentioning. Africa and these least developed countries, which by the way are the ones that were specifically targeted for depopulation by Kissinger, must buy these products and they must deploy these products. From the point of view of the developed nation states, because they control the capitalization for this program, the IHR program and the treaty is going to be a function of what a given nation state's medical budget is. The nation states that spend the most on medicine are going to be obligated to provide the most capital to CEPI and World Health Organization, in order to advance this new agenda of One Health to make us all “more secure”. And by the way, “One Health” transcends human health. It gives them license to do all these same things in animal health, in anything else really they want to do - even control of “climate change”. All in the name of “One Health.”

I have to conclude that the only entity that I'm aware of that fits all those data is the CIA.

The CIA is the organizing principle - the hub, around which MI5, MI6, GCHQ, the Australian Intelligence Community, New Zealand Intelligence Community, Canadian Intelligence Community, US Defense Intelligence, the whole of defense response that Trump mandated, that was mandated by many of these other nation states; that makes sense. The only organizing entity that I've been able to identify that ties all of these disparate things together and goes back to Event 201 is not the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, it's the CIA.

Veronica : This entity looks way too big to me and probably to many Americans. Doctor, do you see any conceivable way in which its unconstitutional reign can be stopped?

Dr. Robert Malone: There were reforms previously that ostensibly took some of the CIA's power and put it into this Director of National Intelligence and kind of the broader scope of the intelligence gathering operations, which cuts across DOD and civilian intelligence.

Veronica : There're 18 of them.

Dr. Robert Malone: Yeah, right, exactly and the Department of Homeland Security of course. It used to be that the intelligence community was forbidden from actions domestically, but now those handcuffs are off, plus they can act through surrogates. That's why we had MI5 and MI6 acting against American citizens on behalf of the CIA and the US Intelligence Community and vice versa, US Intelligence Community acting against citizens in other Five Eyes nation members. They can get around pretty much anything.

Can we bring it to heel? Part of the problem is the money, because the money drives it all. My thesis is that these various administrative groups are semi-autonomous and busy vying for capital and trying to grow their programs organically. This is the dynamics of DC, right? Which is that you have your program and you do everything you can to grow it and get more budget, and when you have a crisis, there's a new pot of money there. It's like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and everybody is busy trying to grab some more of that money to build their little empire. The CIA is so compartmentalized that there are domains within there that are relatively undiscoverable, even if you are within the CIA bureaucracy. Even if you're DCIA. There are autonomous administrative groups there-

Veronica : There are at least nearly 50,000 people working for the agency.

Dr. Robert Malone: That we know about.

Dr. Robert Malone: Yeah, is Langley a thing or is it kind of like an amoeba, an amorphous group of semi-cooperating entities that share dark money and technology and some culture but are semi-autonomous for all the “right reasons,” because of security and the need to compartmentalize information so that they can never really be held accountable.

I think the only way to discover what is actually going on in the CIA is through financial means (investigating the funding sources). This is the threat associated with In-Q-Tel; they (the IC) are now at the point to be completely financially independent. We first saw this with the Iran-Contra situation. We hear that the intelligence community is involved in human trafficking, in drug trafficking and in all kinds of activities to generate capital. And they have their own cutout organizations (independent organizations and corporations with IC links which are need to know only). These are all over the place. They have their own massive venture capital fund. They're increasingly autonomous from Congress, from Congressional oversight.

Veronica :  How would you de-fund them?

Dr. Robert Malone: Okay. I don't know the answer, but yet it has happened. The Stasi was taken down. The starting point has to be the American people coming to the conclusion that they've had enough. I can't see anything happening without a preponderance of force of will on the part of the citizenry and that is part of the problem...

This is why I argue about fifth-generation warfare. That's why I think the fifth-generation warfare threat is so important. The technology for manipulation of information and thought is so comprehensive now. Fifth-generation warfare that was developed for offshore combat, has been deployed against the citizenry. This means that the whole concept of personal sovereignty and autonomy of individual citizens in an electorate is obsolete.

How can you, as a citizen of the United States, effectively come to independent conclusions about what's right or wrong, or how the government should or should not be behaving if you are subjected on a daily basis to this advanced technology of nudging and information control and censorship, control of narrative, government cooperating with press, cooperating with social media, so that every single thing you encounter is manipulated to support the agenda and the narrative of whoever the dominant force is that is propagating this. How can you come to any autonomous conclusion about what should be done?

And you add to that, most people just want to be told what to do. They don't want to have to think for themselves. They have families to raise and car payments to make and everything else. Most people are just trying to pay their bills. They didn't want to think about it. Or if they're thinking about it, they're thinking about local gossip and things like that. To illustrate the point, not to be pejorative, people here in Madison County (Virginia) that are around me, many of them have never been on an airplane. They don't live in the same thought space. I don't want to say intellectual space. The things that matter to them are not the things that matter to thought leaders and influencers in DC, New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Atlanta. They live in a different world and they don't want to hear about this stuff.

They don't want to have to deal with it. That's one of the interesting things about New American is you are reaching a lot of these people. I know that because as I've traveled, people come up to me with these New American articles and ask me to sign things, and many are people that I never would have expected, from all walks of life.

How can we bring this thing to heel, this monster that's been created? This Leviathan, which I argue is now fused with the senior executive service and the administrative state, and has assimilated the ethics of the intelligence community, which are entirely utilitarian. Anything in support of the broader agenda of the Administrative state and its political supporters is acceptable, anything. Assassination, election manipulation, censorship, defamation, character assassination, financial deplatforming. We've seen the weaponization of banks and banking now increasingly normalized. At what point does this stop or does it just become the new normal? I think that's the big question. It's the question you and I have kind of been talking about for a while now.

Veronica : I think listening to you, many people would not agree to be a part of this new normal.

Dr. Robert Malone: Well, that's nice to say. If they're willing to listen and think...

Veronica : First time we spoke Dr. Malone here at this forum, you said that when you speak to people of all walks of life, regardless of their educational level, they all sense that something is deeply wrong about the COVID crisis and beyond. Like you said, the green agenda and the weaponization of the banking system. You don't have to be super smart. You don't have to be the inventor of mRNA vaccines to know that it has nothing to do with the United States Constitution. It has nothing to do with your civil liberties and the world that they are trying to build for you and for your children and your grandchildren is not a cozy place.

You can just feel it.

Dr. Robert Malone: Yes. What's the quote?

""If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."" -George Orwell

Yeah. I don't want to sound so grim, but it's not a pretty picture. It absolutely has to do with information control, artificial intelligence, this transhumanist agenda that we've talked about. All these things, all come together in this central group of issues that have to do with control and controlled populations, controlled behavior. It's basically the CCP model applied to the West.

James Lindsay gave a great talk the other day when I was with him on the hill for the White Coat Summit, in which he talked about American Maoism, that there are these established practices that have been developed by great political leaders. Whatever you think of Chairman Mao, he was very good at what he did and had a lot of insights, and that gave rise to the modern China that we know. Lindsay makes a strong case that we're seeing that same process deployed here in the United States, and very effectively. We see it in all of this evidence that we individually respond to, such as the trans agenda and these various social issues that we see brought forward again and again and again and again that are so incredibly disruptive.

That cycle of alignment, disruption, and then realignment is the key to Mao's genius. That is absolutely what we're seeing going on here- to the extent that this phrase, The New Normal, has become almost quaint, right? We hear it again and again and again. What does it mean? The new normal is the realignment part. We had the old normal. We go through a period of disruption and then we're able to create a new consensus, and that is cycled again and again and again. “The Great Reset” is another one. Again and again and again. Now it is climate change agenda, which makes no sense. If we were really interested in reducing CO2 emissions, it would be about creating energy independence, because energy is really the only form of wealth when it all comes down to it.

Energy is what lifts humans out of poverty.

Energy is what feeds nation states.

Energy is everything.

What we've written about in the green colonialism Substack essay, is that the World Bank and others have been enlisted to try to force least developed countries with large natural gas resources to not use their natural gas resources. Otherwise, the west won't capitalize these countries to build the necessary infrastructure. Instead, they have to build solar-powered facilities and wind-powered facilities that are incredibly expensive and inefficient, which by the way, the people selling all the stuff in the west to these least developed countries are making profit on. The banks are making profit on. Everybody's making profit except for the poor people in these least developed countries that are sitting on enormous natural resources, which is what loops it back to the Kissinger Report. The US Government is explicitly stating in that report we want to keep those populations down and underdeveloped because otherwise they will consume the resources that we want to consume.

The whole thing is just a politic nightmare, ethically. We have taken realpolitik, which Kissinger and Brzezinski were the main champion of, and normalized it as the ethic of the American imperial state. That is, we will do anything in order to advance the economic interests of the state. Really when you look below the covers, the truth is that these public-private partnerships and a lot of this stuff, including this globalized economic activity, is not benefiting the American citizen. The poor folks in the flyover states that used to build things and work the land and have farms and be productive, they have been decimated economically by these policies. These policies are advancing the interest of a very small fraction of the population, which happens to no longer believe in the nation state.

We call them globalists, and their financial organizations are BlackRock, State Street, Vanguard, et cetera. We can go down the list where these large “passive” investment funds are they are extracting capital from different nation states, including the United States, and pulling it into funds which are no longer coupled to the source nation state. Basically, if you're going to go just using the language of Marx, the surplus value is being extracted from the nation states and their populations, then consolidated into these very large funds and their owners.

Then these are searching the world for best return on investment in an agnostic way. Basically, your wealth is being extracted from you and used to set up offshore competition that makes it so that you can no longer make a living, but it doesn't matter to them because they're now decoupled from the actual citizens, and our administrative state is beholden to that financial caste. They're no longer- they're no longer responsive to the general populace. I think the COVID crisis and the mismanagement of the COVID crisis makes that really, really clear. You ask what is the agenda of the CIA?

Is the CIA still representing the interests of the American public. I don't think it is. I think it represents the interests of this global oligarchy.

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