50% of Americans live in suburbs, 80-90% live in urban areas (I’m assuming overlapping definitions), 10-20% are rural — the point being that most of America cannot grow own food or even a significant portion. Those who can and know how (sorry, laughed a bit as I wrote that) don’t/won’t cause that time is better spent watching MarchMadnes…
50% of Americans live in suburbs, 80-90% live in urban areas (I’m assuming overlapping definitions), 10-20% are rural — the point being that most of America cannot grow own food or even a significant portion. Those who can and know how (sorry, laughed a bit as I wrote that) don’t/won’t cause that time is better spent watching MarchMadness, etc.
Commercially grown food is a necessity. Use of chemicals is a necessity as we are in a constant battle with the true rulers of this planet - insects. Could we do better? Sure; but until the consumer is willing to eat what I eat out of the garden, with all the blemishes, etc…
Agree. The greater majority of us stuck with the supermarket and the inflationary prices there today. As for organic, aside from high cost, I have a couple of observations. First how many sources are. Either they simply lie or they are in close proximity to non organic ops so cross contamination impossible to prevent. Also, every warning about e. coli contamination of fresh vegs I have seen has been organic source so there is an obvious problem there. And whereto begin addressing all this has to include developers who will develop land for habitat or cultivation not caring a whit about its history. And corrupted gov agencies and….
There looks to be a lot of changes in ingredients of foods we may have used for decades to make them cheaper to manufacture to cope with inflation. We notice stuff no tasting quite the same. I won't go near a fast food place anymore. Actually haven't for many years except when on the road and there were few alternatives. Then we would stop at a grocery instead and make our own from the deli section.
I don't trust the organic claims as a guarantor of food safety. There is no heavy metal monitoring required and so many plants can accumulate them.
You're totally right about the cross contamination. I sort of laugh about the concept of organic farming in valley or any land mass that receives runoff from other farms.
Good points. You can't trust them all. Organic foods producers can now use the organic seal if the product is only 70% organic (I think Dr. Joseph Mercola shared that info or Organic Consumers Association). Also, Apeel, a coating to make fruit and vegetables look fresher than they are is being used on organic products (not required on label) and you can't wash it off.
Thanks for the prayers! Baltimore sure needs them. 7 cars of folks deep in the water. Outlook poor. Bridge a major route. Took 5 years to build. Fee and covert taxes already in the budget in process with B'more strapped n hurting. Long heal ahead.
That was the first thing I saw in my batch of emails this morning. At 1.6 miles, who would have though the entire structure would collapse. Wea hours of the morning saved many people. Prayers for those people and the rescue folks.
What you describe is exactly what the government rulers want everyone to think and believe. The current state of commercially grown food - vegetables and protein (meat) sources - have become a clear risk to human health. Those who shrug their shoulders and say there's nothing I can do remind me of the life-long smoker who says "it's too late for me to quit".
Luckily life still has options - and we can choose if it is important enough. It's an individual decision.
Life, existence is all about trade offs. Whether is having "pure," "clean" food or something else. Something else may be hunger, possibly famine; something else may be contamination - Salem witchery may have been due to ergot "poisoning;" had we better pesticides in medieval Europe, Ancient Rome, etc., then millions of deaths due to plague may have been averted/avoided - and with that lack of loss feudalism may not have died away and a better social/economic paradigm entered for much longer; GMO crops like Golden Rice languish while millions suffer.
I’m not saying, and I did NOT say, we shouldn’t do better but demanding the best in lieu of TODAY’s good is a trade off I find immoral. I like bread; I like bread so much that I desire (I myself say I DEMAND) the best for me. Because of that I buy "organic" berries locally and from around the country (there’s probably 300# in the house right now) that I mill right before I bake. I use 3 ingredients: flour, water, salt (salt kind’a sort’a optional). But not everyone is willing to go thru what I do nor willing to pay the premium. Did I say I like bread?
Someday our tech will advance to a point where many (all⁉️) of today’s complaints will be behind us - my thoughts: the same mindset then will find something to complain about as we do today. If being a pragmatist makes me a government drone, well guilty - but when you open your eyes and finally see the millions dying and suffering I hope you’re capable of sleeping well.
Are we all Orioles today? <- thought I was being funny (Baltimore orioles) - Maryland has a ridiculous number of state animals.
There are farmers - even some large corporate farmers in California - who are experimenting or practicing organic or other chemical-free agricultural techniques. I don't know why anyone should assume that it is impossible to grow good (healthy) food in large volumes.
And then read what you wrote, carefully - specifically, the part about "experimenting " with "organic." Mankind was practicing organic, pesticide free farming/ranching for several millennia - would you explain how well it worked? If we try no-till farming, how do we control weeds w/o herbicides; what happens to crop yields in, say, the Midwest grain fields w/o pesticides; ergot is becoming a problem, again, and scientists are looking for ways to control it - in the mean time tons (tonnes?) of rye is destroyed because of ergot contamination. How do we achieve the crop yields that feed the world w/o fertilizer?
I’m not organic but I do try to limit what I expose my garden and myself to. One example, 🤔 two, would be controlling potato bugs and asparagus beetles. For years I would examine potato leaves for the yellow patches and squish’s by hand, likewise picking off asparagus beetles by hand and squishing them ( 🤨 you’re not gonna report me to PETA are you): the result being nether of those pests are much of a pest for me now. Would you explain to me where the labor will come from to do the same for 100s, 1,000s of acres.
I am not a farmer or gardener or an expert on high-volume agriculture.
But I know there are people out there trying to apply no-chemical techniques to higher-volume farming. That does not necessarily mean no chemical fertilizers; those are not usually considered to be toxic sources.
No-till is supported by the USDA, though I don't know the details of how it would work on a large farm. It seems like it would work better in orchards or in fields of perennial crops (like berries). And I think we should look at adapting to foods that are easier to grown using less destructive techniques.
I simply see no reason to assume that we NEED toxic chemicals to grow the volume and quality of food needed by the people of Earth. I don't see any reason why someone would assert this categorically.
Don’t know if your abuse of my comment was intentional or just how you (un)intentionally read what I said, but let me reiterate that I said "feed the world," not the "entire" world. Feeding the ENTIRE world would be immoral in that it would create an unconscionable dependency, feeding the world would just be a reflection of the great gift we’ve been given. While there may be a fine line between creating a dependency and benevolence, I, and many others, believe that from those whom much has been given, from them (much) should be given.
50% of Americans live in suburbs, 80-90% live in urban areas (I’m assuming overlapping definitions), 10-20% are rural — the point being that most of America cannot grow own food or even a significant portion. Those who can and know how (sorry, laughed a bit as I wrote that) don’t/won’t cause that time is better spent watching MarchMadness, etc.
Commercially grown food is a necessity. Use of chemicals is a necessity as we are in a constant battle with the true rulers of this planet - insects. Could we do better? Sure; but until the consumer is willing to eat what I eat out of the garden, with all the blemishes, etc…
Pray for Baltimore
Agree. The greater majority of us stuck with the supermarket and the inflationary prices there today. As for organic, aside from high cost, I have a couple of observations. First how many sources are. Either they simply lie or they are in close proximity to non organic ops so cross contamination impossible to prevent. Also, every warning about e. coli contamination of fresh vegs I have seen has been organic source so there is an obvious problem there. And whereto begin addressing all this has to include developers who will develop land for habitat or cultivation not caring a whit about its history. And corrupted gov agencies and….
There looks to be a lot of changes in ingredients of foods we may have used for decades to make them cheaper to manufacture to cope with inflation. We notice stuff no tasting quite the same. I won't go near a fast food place anymore. Actually haven't for many years except when on the road and there were few alternatives. Then we would stop at a grocery instead and make our own from the deli section.
I don't trust the organic claims as a guarantor of food safety. There is no heavy metal monitoring required and so many plants can accumulate them.
You're totally right about the cross contamination. I sort of laugh about the concept of organic farming in valley or any land mass that receives runoff from other farms.
Good points. You can't trust them all. Organic foods producers can now use the organic seal if the product is only 70% organic (I think Dr. Joseph Mercola shared that info or Organic Consumers Association). Also, Apeel, a coating to make fruit and vegetables look fresher than they are is being used on organic products (not required on label) and you can't wash it off.
Apeel brought to you by Mr. Evil, I mean Bill Gates.
And the buyers who sell it to unsuspecting customers without a second thought.
Right, they think it's GGGRREEAATTT!!! ~Tony the Tiger
Thanks for the prayers! Baltimore sure needs them. 7 cars of folks deep in the water. Outlook poor. Bridge a major route. Took 5 years to build. Fee and covert taxes already in the budget in process with B'more strapped n hurting. Long heal ahead.
That was the first thing I saw in my batch of emails this morning. At 1.6 miles, who would have though the entire structure would collapse. Wea hours of the morning saved many people. Prayers for those people and the rescue folks.
What you describe is exactly what the government rulers want everyone to think and believe. The current state of commercially grown food - vegetables and protein (meat) sources - have become a clear risk to human health. Those who shrug their shoulders and say there's nothing I can do remind me of the life-long smoker who says "it's too late for me to quit".
Luckily life still has options - and we can choose if it is important enough. It's an individual decision.
Life, existence is all about trade offs. Whether is having "pure," "clean" food or something else. Something else may be hunger, possibly famine; something else may be contamination - Salem witchery may have been due to ergot "poisoning;" had we better pesticides in medieval Europe, Ancient Rome, etc., then millions of deaths due to plague may have been averted/avoided - and with that lack of loss feudalism may not have died away and a better social/economic paradigm entered for much longer; GMO crops like Golden Rice languish while millions suffer.
I’m not saying, and I did NOT say, we shouldn’t do better but demanding the best in lieu of TODAY’s good is a trade off I find immoral. I like bread; I like bread so much that I desire (I myself say I DEMAND) the best for me. Because of that I buy "organic" berries locally and from around the country (there’s probably 300# in the house right now) that I mill right before I bake. I use 3 ingredients: flour, water, salt (salt kind’a sort’a optional). But not everyone is willing to go thru what I do nor willing to pay the premium. Did I say I like bread?
Someday our tech will advance to a point where many (all⁉️) of today’s complaints will be behind us - my thoughts: the same mindset then will find something to complain about as we do today. If being a pragmatist makes me a government drone, well guilty - but when you open your eyes and finally see the millions dying and suffering I hope you’re capable of sleeping well.
Are we all Orioles today? <- thought I was being funny (Baltimore orioles) - Maryland has a ridiculous number of state animals.
Perhaps we’re all Bal’morians 🤔 today
There are farmers - even some large corporate farmers in California - who are experimenting or practicing organic or other chemical-free agricultural techniques. I don't know why anyone should assume that it is impossible to grow good (healthy) food in large volumes.
Larry, please read what I wrote, carefully.
And then read what you wrote, carefully - specifically, the part about "experimenting " with "organic." Mankind was practicing organic, pesticide free farming/ranching for several millennia - would you explain how well it worked? If we try no-till farming, how do we control weeds w/o herbicides; what happens to crop yields in, say, the Midwest grain fields w/o pesticides; ergot is becoming a problem, again, and scientists are looking for ways to control it - in the mean time tons (tonnes?) of rye is destroyed because of ergot contamination. How do we achieve the crop yields that feed the world w/o fertilizer?
I’m not organic but I do try to limit what I expose my garden and myself to. One example, 🤔 two, would be controlling potato bugs and asparagus beetles. For years I would examine potato leaves for the yellow patches and squish’s by hand, likewise picking off asparagus beetles by hand and squishing them ( 🤨 you’re not gonna report me to PETA are you): the result being nether of those pests are much of a pest for me now. Would you explain to me where the labor will come from to do the same for 100s, 1,000s of acres.
How would YOU control wireworms?
I am not a farmer or gardener or an expert on high-volume agriculture.
But I know there are people out there trying to apply no-chemical techniques to higher-volume farming. That does not necessarily mean no chemical fertilizers; those are not usually considered to be toxic sources.
No-till is supported by the USDA, though I don't know the details of how it would work on a large farm. It seems like it would work better in orchards or in fields of perennial crops (like berries). And I think we should look at adapting to foods that are easier to grown using less destructive techniques.
I simply see no reason to assume that we NEED toxic chemicals to grow the volume and quality of food needed by the people of Earth. I don't see any reason why someone would assert this categorically.
Who says we have to feed the entire world, anyway?
Don’t know if your abuse of my comment was intentional or just how you (un)intentionally read what I said, but let me reiterate that I said "feed the world," not the "entire" world. Feeding the ENTIRE world would be immoral in that it would create an unconscionable dependency, feeding the world would just be a reflection of the great gift we’ve been given. While there may be a fine line between creating a dependency and benevolence, I, and many others, believe that from those whom much has been given, from them (much) should be given.