Reading comments here, sounds like there is disagreement as to whether the majority of people flourished because of the I.R or languished in despair and were better off in an agrarian economy.
As a generalization, I would say folks are pretty well divided between the exploiters and the exploited, irregardless of what era they lived in. That that division exists is precisely why dreamy socialistic isms will always fail miserably.
Yes, in the strict sense. A socialist order under force is hard to maintain and impossible to establish without force.
Now-a-days more people that are not poor, whine and complain about the poor 'poor' people not realizing that many of those poor people feel better off than they were. It is all relative. I understand there are strivers and non-strivers. By 1990 the US population class structure for an individualтАЩs life span resembled a bell curve generally. What happened? Politics and politicians rigging the system, including education and industry.
The pols are taking a hard look at education finally. Just got back an encouraging letter from my state rep in response to one I sent her re education at all levels. Her response, referring to bills passed and considered indicate awareness now being followed by remediation.
Historically, medieval peasants in the UK were serfs, which means Feudal slaves. The Civil War (c 1640's) saw an end to the absolute power of monarchs - well, Charles had his head chopped off - so it means that Britain had a revolution well before either France or Russia. But like most revolutions, it was led by an upsurging Middle Class - fired up with Protestant beliefs. Oliver Cromwell became a dictator, so was eventually replaced with a constitutionally limited Monarchy, with Parliament supreme.
The position of the rural peasantry in the UK was less than idyllic, hey simply had new masters, and the C18th saw the massive expansion of a division between the landowning classes, with their huge fancy houses, and the working class. By the C19th, Chartism - the precursor to Marxism, was already taking hold on the imagination of the rural and urban poor. Workers created newspapers, libraries, schools, hospital and medical support systems and early trades unions, and challenged the status quo.
Broadly speaking, the industrial workers faced massive challenges of child labour, exploitation, long hours, low wages, and rotten landlords - and they worked to overcome these injustices.
Well, Rob, did you have a constitutionally limited Monarchy, with Parliament supreme in 1776? Reading our Declaration of Independence there was scant attention paid to your legislature, but a lot to be said about the "the present King of Great Britain." Doesn't sound like your view would have resonated with Thomas Jefferson or the other signatories of that document. Funny how the facts get in the way of your narrative. And William Wilberforce. Was he a Marxist? Gee, I didn't know. And here, silly me, I thought his motive for his fight against the slave trade was due to his Christian faith. And Edmund Burke? Just a flunky for the upper crust? No contribution from him? Your ideological enemy, I suppose.
I have no enemies that I know of. I'm interested in the Truth, and nothing but the Truth. Power always morphs and concentrates around a few key individuals, power corrupts, and eventually this all blows up and opens the door to new people, with fresh ideas. Yes, some outstanding Christians have helped human and political progress: (as have some outstanding Muslims and Hindus) ... we all owe a debt to Martin Luther King, Gandhi, and Nelson Mandela. I can see how Faith galvanises good folks, just as it can corrupt them utterly. Is the current British Monarch an Anglican, and Head of the Church? Probably not, but is represents a deep conflict of interest, and needs to be resolved. Surgically. The position is indefensible.
Yes, the quest for Truth is absolutely essential. Yet, would we know it if it once was found? In our cultures today, with the masters of manipulation in charge of information, Truth is more elusive than ever. And now, with AI upon us, it gets even worse тАУ to be able to dissect the official line from what actually is. And yes, power does corrupt. So church hierarchies, be they Catholic or Anglican, Muslim or Baptist, are not exempt from that corrosive influence. DonтАЩt ask me, I wouldnтАЩt have voted for the Henry VIII scheme from the beginning. But then, church hierarchies are not my thing anyway.
I guess that the big challenge to the powers that existed in the Medieval World, came from Caxtons Printing Press. Giving ordinary people the opportunity to read. And then, extending education to the working classes: revolutionary thinking! Needless to say, just about every generation has had to fight for such basic freedoms, and the current boundary is the Internet itself, meaning that anyone can read anything - and for free - this is creating a huge revolution in the way that we think and relate to each other. Obviously the powers that be are trying to control it.... they always do.
Nice history in a nutshell. Challenges make for strong people. On my maternal side, one set of family left England for Holland and then the New World in 1620. The other set of family left England in 1883 for Quebec then moved to MA.
I watched a PBS movie about Cromwell years ago. I'm always skeptical about the take-away message being provide during a dose of long ago history!
Many of the Brits who left these shores emigrated for religious reasons: I'm especially pleased that we evicted both extreme Catholics and extreme Protestants to Europe and the New World: good bloody riddance to them all!
The Industrial Revolution began in 1760 according to Toynbee so had been around a while before Dickens began writing
Reading comments here, sounds like there is disagreement as to whether the majority of people flourished because of the I.R or languished in despair and were better off in an agrarian economy.
As a generalization, I would say folks are pretty well divided between the exploiters and the exploited, irregardless of what era they lived in. That that division exists is precisely why dreamy socialistic isms will always fail miserably.
Yes, in the strict sense. A socialist order under force is hard to maintain and impossible to establish without force.
Now-a-days more people that are not poor, whine and complain about the poor 'poor' people not realizing that many of those poor people feel better off than they were. It is all relative. I understand there are strivers and non-strivers. By 1990 the US population class structure for an individualтАЩs life span resembled a bell curve generally. What happened? Politics and politicians rigging the system, including education and industry.
The pols are taking a hard look at education finally. Just got back an encouraging letter from my state rep in response to one I sent her re education at all levels. Her response, referring to bills passed and considered indicate awareness now being followed by remediation.
This is promising good news Micheal! So important to have that conversation. It gives those elected a boost to keep on it.
Nearly all human progress since 1900 has been due to Socialist ideologies, and very little due to Capitalism. Discuss.
Explain human progress.
Historically, medieval peasants in the UK were serfs, which means Feudal slaves. The Civil War (c 1640's) saw an end to the absolute power of monarchs - well, Charles had his head chopped off - so it means that Britain had a revolution well before either France or Russia. But like most revolutions, it was led by an upsurging Middle Class - fired up with Protestant beliefs. Oliver Cromwell became a dictator, so was eventually replaced with a constitutionally limited Monarchy, with Parliament supreme.
The position of the rural peasantry in the UK was less than idyllic, hey simply had new masters, and the C18th saw the massive expansion of a division between the landowning classes, with their huge fancy houses, and the working class. By the C19th, Chartism - the precursor to Marxism, was already taking hold on the imagination of the rural and urban poor. Workers created newspapers, libraries, schools, hospital and medical support systems and early trades unions, and challenged the status quo.
Broadly speaking, the industrial workers faced massive challenges of child labour, exploitation, long hours, low wages, and rotten landlords - and they worked to overcome these injustices.
Well, Rob, did you have a constitutionally limited Monarchy, with Parliament supreme in 1776? Reading our Declaration of Independence there was scant attention paid to your legislature, but a lot to be said about the "the present King of Great Britain." Doesn't sound like your view would have resonated with Thomas Jefferson or the other signatories of that document. Funny how the facts get in the way of your narrative. And William Wilberforce. Was he a Marxist? Gee, I didn't know. And here, silly me, I thought his motive for his fight against the slave trade was due to his Christian faith. And Edmund Burke? Just a flunky for the upper crust? No contribution from him? Your ideological enemy, I suppose.
I have no enemies that I know of. I'm interested in the Truth, and nothing but the Truth. Power always morphs and concentrates around a few key individuals, power corrupts, and eventually this all blows up and opens the door to new people, with fresh ideas. Yes, some outstanding Christians have helped human and political progress: (as have some outstanding Muslims and Hindus) ... we all owe a debt to Martin Luther King, Gandhi, and Nelson Mandela. I can see how Faith galvanises good folks, just as it can corrupt them utterly. Is the current British Monarch an Anglican, and Head of the Church? Probably not, but is represents a deep conflict of interest, and needs to be resolved. Surgically. The position is indefensible.
Yes, the quest for Truth is absolutely essential. Yet, would we know it if it once was found? In our cultures today, with the masters of manipulation in charge of information, Truth is more elusive than ever. And now, with AI upon us, it gets even worse тАУ to be able to dissect the official line from what actually is. And yes, power does corrupt. So church hierarchies, be they Catholic or Anglican, Muslim or Baptist, are not exempt from that corrosive influence. DonтАЩt ask me, I wouldnтАЩt have voted for the Henry VIII scheme from the beginning. But then, church hierarchies are not my thing anyway.
I guess that the big challenge to the powers that existed in the Medieval World, came from Caxtons Printing Press. Giving ordinary people the opportunity to read. And then, extending education to the working classes: revolutionary thinking! Needless to say, just about every generation has had to fight for such basic freedoms, and the current boundary is the Internet itself, meaning that anyone can read anything - and for free - this is creating a huge revolution in the way that we think and relate to each other. Obviously the powers that be are trying to control it.... they always do.
Nice history in a nutshell. Challenges make for strong people. On my maternal side, one set of family left England for Holland and then the New World in 1620. The other set of family left England in 1883 for Quebec then moved to MA.
I watched a PBS movie about Cromwell years ago. I'm always skeptical about the take-away message being provide during a dose of long ago history!
Many of the Brits who left these shores emigrated for religious reasons: I'm especially pleased that we evicted both extreme Catholics and extreme Protestants to Europe and the New World: good bloody riddance to them all!